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Original poster

Children lying to Cafcass

82 replies

Blacklight80 · 09/09/2017 07:30

We have just received the section 7 report prior to the next hearing. The children have been lying to the person interviewing them.

Without going into detail, one example is them saying they never get to do anything when they are within their DD, resulting in Cafcass making recommendations such as "do activities with DC". This is in no way true, but DC obviously feel the need to present a negative view of their DD.

This in only one example of many.

So, my question is, how to best address this with the court?

OP posts:
Sleephead1 · 10/09/2017 07:42

It sounds frustrating but i think all you can do is let your partner vent to you and support him. You only have his side of things and maybe the mother is awful but they are in court and this is whats been decided. You really dont know why they are saying it maybe they do find it boring , maybe they prefer being at home, maybe they want to do things with their friends and cant as they are at their dads or maybe it is to please their mum. It seems like you dont see the kids and you arent going to be their step mum. At this time i would just step back they are your partners children if he wants to keep fighting it support him but especially the 14 year old will be getting more of a say in what they want to happen. Good luck and hope your partner gets a outcome he is happy with.

Runningissimple · 10/09/2017 07:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Notreallyarsed · 10/09/2017 08:32

DS1 knows that his dad has never paid maintenance/bought him clothes or uniform or anything, but that's because when he asked his dad for new trainers he told him it's not his job and to ask my DP since he's the one who provides for him Hmm (incidentally this is true, however I was furious that he'd told DS1). He did get his trainers, but we bought them.

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:15

I'm not debating the children's feelings, they are incredibly stressed about the whole situation and I think they think it would just be easier if he left them alone so they don't have to feel these conflicted emotions.

However, neither my partner or I think that's what's best for them in the long run.

For me personally my life would be a lot easier if he didn't give a crap. This situation has been going on for 5 years now. And as they don't accept me or our children it means I'm on my own with a 2 year old and a 3 month old when he is with the older children.

But as I said, i don't think that is right for the older ones, they do need their father whether they think so now or not.

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:17

Back to my question though, about their statements in the report. Is there any point to try and show that they actually do lots of things together? (Obviously implying that there must be a reason for them to present facts the way they have)

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:18

And before anyone says so again, I'm really staying out of this other than giving advice to my partner when he asks for it!

I have my hands full with the little ones :)

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:22

@Runningissimple that really sounds like a horrible situation for the children, and for you as well :( If you want to share, what was the outcome of the court case?

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:24

@Notreallyarsed of course the kids will inevitably pick up things. Especially if they ask outright and get answers like that one :S

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SisterhoodisPowerful · 10/09/2017 11:24

Just to be clear, you have 2 children with your DP but never see your SSC? And, your DP doesn't pay maintenance?

Refusal to pay child maintenance is the one of leading causes of child poverty in the U.K. If your partner is refusing to pay, then teenage children have every right to know.

Notreallyarsed · 10/09/2017 11:25

I think there is point to showing what he's been doing with them, to prove to CAFCASS that he is doing what he says and there's no room for argument from the mother.
5 years and you're still not allowed to meet his kids? That's really unusual! I can understand a year or even two, but you have kids together ffs, is it her stipulation?

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:32

@Sisterhood Correct, I don't see his three older children.

I've seen them once. Before we had our children, it must have been about two years in to our relationship. They said they didn't like me and don't want to see me again. Our kids have never met them.

Who said anything about refusing to pay maintenance..? He pays maintenance via CMS.

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 10/09/2017 11:34

@Notreallyarsed it it's the kids decision as they don't like me, but let's face it, it's hardly an opinion they've formed independently when their mother refers to me by calling me names.

Either way, not much we can do, I don't think it would be useful to try and force contact.

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Notreallyarsed · 10/09/2017 11:40

Ah ok, that's tough for you and for him I'd imagine. It's ironic really, DS1s SM is brilliant, I no longer worry when he goes to his dad's because she's there. Before I worried myself sick every time because XH is such a useless dick.

Runningissimple · 10/09/2017 15:53

I got the post withdrawn as it's so awful for the kids and I felt really exposed after I posted it. The court ordered pretty much what the dc's said they wanted.

My solicitor, a wise and wonderful woman, just kept saying. "Children that age vote with their feet." And they do - the court orders the parents, not the kids.

The problem in our situation was that their dad got so frustrated with the kids that every time he saw them, he ended up having a massive row with them about how I was manipulating them. In the end they wouldn't go and it got really unpleasant (I'd rather not go into detail) and now 2 of the 3 children refuse to see him.

It's awful because he was a good dad up until the absolute chaos of our separation. Every time I've tried to help, it's just got worse. I'm hoping that more time will heal.

My advice to any parent in this situation would be:

  1. End the court process as quickly as possible. It's so stressful for everyone, especially the kids.
  2. No matter how difficult the kids are - be kind, be gentle, be patient. They are not in any way responsible for the situation.
  3. Be open and honest about whatever they want to talk about but don't initiate 'heavy' topics and if the ex's behaviour is difficult and the children voice that, acknowledge it but don't slag him/her off. Try not to minimise or fan the flames. Just listen.
  4. Trust that your children want to have a good relationship with you and if you stay calm and present for them, they'll come to you.

All the best Flowers

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 12:36

Hi all, just wanted to update you on the outcome after the hearing which was yesterday.

The judge ordered that contact remain as is with same amount of days (dismissing the fiddly changes suggested in the report of 1 night from EOW and 1 day from holiday contact).

Judge also strongly advised mum to access counselling and to not involve children in matters they should not be involved in, as well as for her to start using my proposer name and rhe children's names (mine and DP's)

DP pleased with outcome even though I suspect there won't be any big changes from his ex's side, at least dates are now set in a court order so no more discussion around that.

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 12:38

@runningissimple I'm so sorry to hear that. Is there any way you can try and sit down with the kids dad and try and sort things out? With a mediator maybe? Or is he not interested in trying that route?

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MrsBertBibby · 13/09/2017 14:05

That sounds good blacklight.

Is that a final order? Or do you go back.

Notreallyarsed · 13/09/2017 14:11

That sounds positive, at least she's been told to wind her neck in. I hope she's not speaking nastily about your kids, that's even worse than what she calls you!

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 14:49

@MrsBertBibby, final order. It also says in the order that me and our children shall not be present during contact until DP's relationship with the children has improved. What does this mean, as there's no follow up?

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 14:51

@Notreallyarsed she never uses their names, just refers to them as "the child" or "the children". According to the kids mummy's told them that they never have to see them, and given them examples of people she knows who's chosen not to meet their half siblings.

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Notreallyarsed · 13/09/2017 14:59

She sounds really spiteful OP, it's a pet hate of mine when parents sink to involving the bairns in their nastiness. It's damaging and uncalled for and I hope that she gets a grip on herself because the only people she's hurting are her own kids!!

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 15:00

@MrsBertBibby, the bit about us not being present is not under the headline of "The court orders:"

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Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 16:03

@Notreallyarsed I haven't got great hopes as this has been going on for so many years now. But who knows, maybe it will help that she's been "told not to" but I doubt it.

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AliceTown · 13/09/2017 16:14

Sounds like it's a recital. It's not enforceable and is pretty vague - who decides if it's improved and how?
But honestly, having been where you are, I'd stick with it for a while. "Play the long game" is the best piece of advice I've had on this journey.

Original poster
Blacklight80 · 13/09/2017 19:24

@AliceTown that's what I thought. What's the point of the recitals then, as they're not enforceable?

We have no intent on trying to force it (I'm not that keen to see them tbh, nor subject my kids to a meeting. At least not if they're going to behave after how they talk about us 😳)

I was just wondering what it meant. As you say, who decides that's it's improved?

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