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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Child to be interviewed under caution

64 replies

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 16:16

Hi. First ever post so please be kind ;-) Brief outline.. 13yr old boy stupidly gave 13yr old girl a "love bite" when out as a group and all larking about. No coercion etc. 2 days after girl's Mum discovered said "bite" & her and her partner turned up on our doorstep screaming our son was a "paedophile" & trying to force entry to get at him.

Son is autistic and goes to SEN school and we discussed the whole situation openly with them and he was spoken to about appropriate behaviour etc. The first I actually knew about it being reported to the police was when SS called 3 weeks ago, and said they'd spoken to the girl, got very little from her and wouldn't be taking any action.

We are now 8 weeks on & I have been contacted by a DC saying she has now got around to dealing with the incident and wants to interview son under caution so she can close the case. Says her sergeant has said no further action will be taken but has to be done. She is coming to the house tomorrow. She said he's entitled to a solicitor but as nothing is going to happen thereafter there's not really a need. If he's interviewed under caution, should it be a taped interview? Will this happen as she's doing it at home? Any advice please?? Many thanks

OP posts:

RustyParker · 10/08/2017 16:39

I'm not a legally qualified person but I would definitely have a solicitor present, particularly if your DS has SEN. Does the girl in question have SEN? Not sure why they need to speak to your DS if they've already decided not to take any action.

Definitely do not accept a caution either.

Hopefully someone qualified comes along with more detailed advice.

DancingLedge · 10/08/2017 17:47

Definitely have a criminal solicitor present.

You absolutely need someone who can make you aware of how things should be, and your son's rights.

In fact, I would strongly advise that no one should ever be interviewed by the police without a solicitor present.

Ask the solicitor whether there should also be an appropriate adult, given your son's age.If the solicitor says that's you, ask them to clarify that role.

YorkshireTree · 10/08/2017 17:50

Make it clear you don't accept a caution. The solicitor will be free so worth taking up.

IDoAllMyOwnStunts · 10/08/2017 18:09

You are entitled to free and independent legal advice. As your son is a juvenile he will need an appropriate adult with him when he's being interviewed (you or dad). The solicitor will explain your role, but basically it is to help facilitate communication in the interview.
Being interviewed under caution doesn't mean the police are thinking of cautioning him for the offence. So please don't think that. Again solicitor will be able to advise you fully.

The police have to interview him under caution as he is a suspect.

The caution is:
A) he doesn't have to say anything
B) it may harm any defence put forward at court if he fails to mention something in this interview
C) everything is being recorded and may be given as evidence.
They will tell him this at the beginning of the interview. But again a solicitor will advise your son more on what responses to give. The benefit of a solicitor is that the police may tell them about what evidence they have prior to the case.

If they are doing it at your house they will make a written contemporaneous record of the interview.

If they ask to do it at the police station they will most likely audio record it.

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:13

Honestly? I don't recommend you get a solicitor, I don't believe it will be necessary.

They are interviewing at home under caution, which is an option available in either less serious cases or if it is believed the job will not be going anywhere. Whilst it 'could' still result in someone being sent a summons to court, or offered a caution, firstly there would still have to be an offence. What offence is he being interviewed for?

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:20

When we are looking into an offence, we have to get an account from the 'suspect' in order to be able to determine whether the offence has been committed. We will only ask questions of a suspect after cautioning them - this is to protect them. But the fact that we are asking them questions (interviewing them) under caution doesn't mean it's necessarily more than just a conversation.

It sounds like the officer has been upfront with you - if you're worried then ask the officer to arrange for a duty solicitor to call you, but I interview lots of juveniles under caution without legal representation present, and all I am after is for them to tell me what happened.

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 18:24

Thank you all so much for your swift replies! The DC has said he's being interviewed as an allegation of sexual assault has been made so they have to follow it up? She has stated that no further action will be taken and she has told the mother this already. To be honest I was given the choice of interview at the station or at home. Obviously, given his ASD & extremely high anxiety, I opted for home. She has made it sound like it's just a "minor" formality and given it's been 8 weeks since the incident and they've only just got around to contacting me, I didn't feel too worried. But the more I think about it the more concerned I am. If for any reason she suggests he accepts a caution, can I step in and refuse this? I am allowed to be present apparently.

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Florene · 10/08/2017 18:25

The only way your son would end up 'being cautioned', as opposed to 'being interviewed under caution' would be if he admitted committing an offence, and this was deemed the most appropriate disposal method.

Even if your son was guilty, and admitted it, the first port of call if a low level first offence, would be a referral to Youth Offending, who would carry out one-on-one intervention sessions with the child to see if education, rather than reprimand is more appropriate.

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:28

The offence of sexual assault (by touching) is a serious and criminal offence. If you are accused of sexual assault, the Prosecution must prove that:

You have intentionally touched another person,

That the touching is sexual,

That the other person did not consent to you touching them, and

You did not reasonably believe that the other person was consenting

Kardashianlove · 10/08/2017 18:30

Agree with pps who advised to get a solicitor. Definitely do this.

If for any reason he accepts a caution, can I step in and refuse this?

Don't put yourself in that position, that's exactly what the solicitor is there for. They may not be needed at all and it could just all be very informal but it's not worth the risk.

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 18:31

He has "admitted" giving the love bite to both us and school and I told the DC this on the phone. The Deputy Head at school (who he trusts and feels able to talk to) had a very long talk with him 1-1 and she is certain he did not use coercion or any kind of force.

OP posts:

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:31

To proceed with a case of sexual assault, there must be sufficient evidence that all four points to prove above have been met.

From what you have said, points one and two have been met. Points three and four have not, if your son is saying she was a willing participant.

So the offence is not complete, and therefore the matter will be closed as insufficient evidence to proceed.

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:35

If, however, your son is interviewed and said she didn’t consent but he did it anyway, that would be a different matter - your son has presumably told you what happened so you will already know what he is going to say in interview when asked this question.

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:39

Obviously if any other witnesses said she didn't consent, then this is a different story also.

But it sounds like this is not the situation from what the DC has said about how there will be no further action with the case.

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 18:39

Thank you. Whilst he is at the high end of the spectrum, he has extremely high anxiety and getting him in (& staying!) a police station would without doubt send him into meltdown. I wasn't actually aware anyone could be interviewed under caution at home so when offered the opportunity I took it, although she did make clear if we wanted a solicitor it would have to be at the station. But again, given her almost blase attitude, I wasn't initially worried.

OP posts:

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:41

Honestly, I really wouldn't be worried. From what you have said, it will be fine

iMatter · 10/08/2017 18:42

Solicitor x 1000

Don't do this alone

Protect your son

It's (potentially) a sexual offence

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:45

Like I said, if you are still worried, you can ask for a duty solicitor to call you to discuss. But I really don't think you need it.

becotide · 10/08/2017 18:49

I don't think he can necessarily be held responsible for the crime anyway, despite being over ten.

I think his diagnosis might mean that, in combination with his age, he would be considered not of criminal responsibility.

However.

Get a solicitor. The girl's mother sounds utterly irrational about this and may make an almighty fuss, and if making your autistic child accept a criminal record will make that fuss stop, that is what the CPS will try to do.

Secondly.

When your son is interviewed (which he undoubtedly will be) ensure that he is dressed in comfortable, primary coloured clothing and no shoes, that his hair is neatly combed and not greasy and that he has some fiddly toys such as some plasticene or lego to hold. You want to ensure that the officer sees him as the vulnerable child he is and not the dangerous predator the other mother might try to paint him as.

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 18:50

I'm kind of inclined to leave as is due to the getting him to a police station situation. However, would Duty Solicitor call me at home? Do I leave this until the morning or ask today?

OP posts:

becotide · 10/08/2017 18:52

Arrange your own solicitor and speak to them to explain what the issue is. Your own solicitor may come to your house. You are allowed to have a solicitor at your house, the police do not get to say that you can't

Florene · 10/08/2017 18:54

If you do want a phone call, ask for it today. Yes, they can call your mobile.

In my force we would arrange this for you - the police in your area might just tell you to call a solicitor yourself tomorrow for advice, it will still be free if you do it yourself so don't worry about that.

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 18:57

Please don't get me wrong. I and he accept he shouldn't have done this. We've been open with everyone and I accept he needs to know right from wrong even with his ASD. It is his lack of social understanding that I think hasn't helped but he has to live in the real world and live by those rules as hard as it is

OP posts:

Original poster

PaddingtonSandwich · 10/08/2017 19:06

Thank you Florence. I feel much more reassured x

OP posts:

becotide · 10/08/2017 19:07

Yeah well in the "real world", other parents don't turn up on your doorstep when one 13 year old gives another 13 year old a love bite. In the real world, lovebits are accepted as a distasteful part of adolescence, not as durty peedo assaults.

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