Breaching of court order

[Extremophile]

Hi everyone, Long time lurker first time poster.

I'm a bit stuck and have no idea what to do next. My story is a long one, but I will shorten it as best I can - any ideas on what to do are much appreciated.

8 years ago, after a very difficult and troubled relationship the father and I broke up. The break up was very bitter due to infidelity on my part, I was desperate for comfort after years of controlling and coercive behaviour. Ultimately I had a few problems when I left, around trust and confidence, so I wanted to get myself together before resuming contact with my child - who was 3 at the time.

There was a lot of hostility and bitterness on his part and maybe I didn't handle the situation as best I could. Having to start my life all over again, and still very fragile I was easily intimidated by him and his family. My work schedule was only released 1 week in advance and desperate for cash I couldn't change my shifts as I wouldn't have been able to support myself financially (or pay CSA), so occasionally I had to cancel or rearrange the visitation we'd agreed would be fortnightly. Eventually these broke down completely with wild accusations being thrown around on his part, it made visiting my child in a healthy environment and mindframe entirely impossible, so out of concern for my child and I withdrew from visitation until the situation calmed down.

I always tried stayed in contact with the Father and I sent presents and cards etc, but the intimidation and insults kept flying, so eventually contact with the Father became more sporadic. I wasn't being given any information about my child apart from 'they're ok' etc.

When my child turned 8 I started to get very frustrated and thought enough time had passed, maybe we could put everything behind us and work together for our child to know both parents - by this time the father has started a family with his new partner, so my child has half siblings, and has more than likely forgotten about me. I tried to be very civil with him, offering solutions to problems, trying to get more information about my child... nothing. More insults, more accusations, more intimidation. This went on for another 2 years.

I tried to attempt mediation with the father, but no he didn't want to do it. I had no choice left but to take him to court to get access. In the FHDRA he agreed that the child would meet me and it would be at a contact centre... great I thought. It never happened because they all thought the centre 'wasn't the right type of place' (based on my experience of him, to me this read - the father wouldn't be in control). So we went back for a final hearing and thrashed out a new order with the help of CAFCASS - after several attempts of his to muddy the water with things like - why aren't you paying CSA (I don't have an income of any kind - but that's another story). We managed to keep him on subject and he agreed to fortnightly visits in which I would travel a round trip of 600 miles to see our child, they would promote a healthy relationship between me and the child, and we would all listen to what the child wanted. For the initial meeting the step mother was to be present - all went well. Then in the intervening period after a few pleasant phonecalls with her (stepmother) backwards and forwards - things took a turn for the worse, with demands being thrown around that I would meet the step mother before my visitation with my child - I didn't think this was healthy as every other time the discussion always turned in to interrogation - not healthy before your visit with your estranged child.
After a whole week of instults and demands (all unreasonable on their part), the step mother shows up with her sister in law & my child, and in front of my child starts shouting questions at me. I managed to calm the situation down and protect my child from the worst of what was happening, but the two of the hung around hijacking my conversations and ruining the whole visit - at the end, both of them jumped up and infront of my child begin shouting at me, demandign I answer the questions they say the child is asking - questions about things that children just shouldn't know about - demanding answers to things like CSA payments and why my birthday present 'just wasn't good enough' etc. The sister in law started shouting at me and eventually snatched my child away, leaving the step mother hurling abuse at me infront of other people.

I apologised to everyone when they all left and asked the shop manager if they could be a witness for me. But I just don't know what to do now.

Please help

However you got to this point, the problem you have now is that your child does not know you. The adults around him or her are most likely doing their best to protect your child from unnecessary disruption, which could have a very, very damaging effect on them. (Disruption that you are causing, not them.) It sounds as if for all intents and purposes, the 'stepmother' is your child's mother in everything but biology.

They are the ones who've spent all these years caring for him/her when you chose not to, and supporting him/her financially when you chose not to.

This is not about breaching of a court order, it's about barging back into a child's life after many years, and causing massive upset and disruption. Of course, you should have a relationship with your child, but only IF you can be a positive and nurturing influence going forward.

Before going any further forward with this, try to switch your focus. This is not about you and everything you have suffered, it is about what is best for your child. Now, at this moment, and also going forward into the future. Your next steps should be those that will cause the least disruption for your child and give them the most positive future.

If you cannot yet be a stable, consistent influence, that may mean that now is not the right time to come back into your child's life.

So how is them shouting abuse at me protecting the child from disruption? how is that in the childs interests? as you say... i'm looking at it from a childs point of view, and I hated hearing people shout at each other when i was a kid - I remember saying I didn't want to see my nan after there was an arguement once... I was only 5 or 6 at the time, but it took a long time to get over it at that age.

How is it ok to throw abuse at me like this IN FRONT of the child? regardless of all that came before

You don't know what your child likes or doesn't like though because you haven't been around.

I seriously doubt they just started shouting at you unprovoked.

You were lucky to get granted any contact at all given the vast amount of time you were absent.

With respect, DawnOfTheMombie all you are doing is putting me down - I've had that enough for 8 years - if you are not willing to offer any reasonable words of advice, at least can you stop trying to put me down.

For all those banging on about the past - the starting off point here is the court order.
Everything else is past history. The father agreeing to the order means he accepts that the order is in the child's best interests.

Because you're not accepting responsibility for this situation. You left your child with a man you said was abusive. You abandoned your child for years on end. Then decided you wanted to get your "rights" enforced whilst ignoring all your responsibilities to your child. You can afford a court case but not child support. You live very far away because that's what's best for you. It's all me me me in your posts.

DawnOfTheMombie Are you the step-mother? You seem to have invested a lot in attacking the OP.

Ok, I've reported your posts. I understand you do not have the full details, because it is not appropriate for me to post them - but that does not give you artistic licence to fill the blanks with whatever you choose.

just what i was thinking Collaborate

If they have breached the order then you need to contact your solicitor again.

No I'm not. And you've reported my posts for what exactly I'm not the only PP making these points. I

The advice you need is to return to court if you feel the order is not being carried out.

However you also need to think about why this has happened. The two women who have shouted at you today have spent a lot more time with your child than you have. Do yourself a favour and try and see it from their POV because that's the way to fix this.

NorthernLurker,

I've been very understanding of them up until this point. Regardless of their private feelings towards me, how can they excuse behaving this way in front of the child.

So what you're wanting is for us to join in the step mother bashing when she's the one who's been raising the child you abandoned? What about your behaviour towards the child? Do you not think that your behaviour since this child was 3 had had a huge impact on them?

DawnOfTheMombie - I'm not going to talk to you any further. You clearly have not read anything properly and are quite clearly a little bitter about something that has happened in your life.

I have nothing further to say to you.

Okay OP, you continue minimising your own frankly foul behaviour towards your own child whilst blowing one small incident entirely out of proportion. Keep your head in the sand and see how far it gets you with your child.

You had an affair, left the relationship leaving your toddler son behind, didn't have contact for years and pay no child support. Now you're mad because the people who've been there consistently are pissed off with you?

You need to put on your big girl pants and just rise above it. You messed up - big time and you need to understand that there is going to be a lot of bad feeling towards you from your ex and his partner. Obviously abusing you in front of your son is not good and needs addressing, but hopefully if you're consistent with visits and support then their anger might lessen as they'll see that your doing your best.

FWIW I'm a single mum and if my ex walked away for years (and also absolved themselves of any financial responsibility towards the child they helped to create)because they felt it was for the best then I'd be pretty pissed too.

The advice you need is to return to court if you feel the order is not being carried out.

However you also need to think about why this has happened. The two women who have shouted at you today have spent a lot more time with your child than you have. Do yourself a favour and try and see it from their POV because that's the way to fix this.

Great advice from NorthernLurker.

Please don't take this the wrong way but there is very confusing status' in your post.
Of course when any relationship breaks down there is anger and hostility from BOTH sides and if you felt at that time the best thing to do was distance yourself from your child that is your decision to live with (I am not saying I agree with you as I could never not be in my child's life but you clearly had your own issues)
You state though that you were working with shifts only available a week in advance yet not paying CSA (again something you don't wish to go into) but if this was the other way round and it was a dad that was clearly working and not paying for his child he would get the same response as a lot of the replies on here. Regardless of what is happening in your personal life you have brought a child into this world and should support them as you can!
It appears to me (IMO) that you thought you could simply walk back into your child's life and 'pick up where you left off' for use of a better phrase. Now you have been hit with questions / hostility you are going back into the place you were a number of years ago. More woe is me etc
The SM is the one who has been up in the night whilst your child is sick, held them when they have cried, kissed them better when they have fallen over - you owe her a thank you!
You have been told the best option is to go back to court which I think you should do in order to get clear contact arrangements in place. You also need to slowly build up your relationship with your child - if they shout and scream at you simply state that this is time with your child and further conversations shall be done without them present.
It is not going to be easy but you have to show all people involved that you are in this for the long haul and not just to make you feel better. To them they may think this is a passing phase which is only ultimately going to hurt the child. You have to build their trust up too
This is not an attack on you at all - its difficult to see clearly sometimes when you are in the midst of something. I hope it all works out well but you need to have a lot of patience and be prepared to be in this for the long haul.
Please put your own feelings aside and concentrate on your child

Have you thanked your ex and his partner for bringing your daughter up? Paying for everything, doing all the crappy drudge work, covering for you when she asked why she didn't have a Mum?

It shows a staggering lack of insight to not see why they're angry and resentful at you effectively showing up after all this time. I imagine they're actually very worried and scared about the damage this is going to do to your daughter and guess who'll be picking up the pieces? Yep, them, as usual.

However, I don't see how the order has been breached, but you go back to court and have another spat about it if you want to, rather than trying to reasonably work with your child's day-to-day parents, who know her and what's best for her. See how it goes.

Depending on her age, the courts will give her wishes about contact consideration and if she thinks it's unsettling her and upsetting her parents she might feel it's better off leaving it for a while. Another thing to consider if you want to go full steam ahead into another row.

It shows a staggering lack of insight for you all to think that just because he is the PWC it means he is the best person on the planet and they are all 100% right. And a staggering pack of insight at how I in the first few sentences I even admit that I could have handled things better, we both could - there is no doubt about it, but that still does not give you all the right to resort to name calling and out of line comments. It shows how none of you are able to look at something from a childs pov, and boil everything down to money - maybe you had problems with your ex and CSA payments, but that does not give you the right to colour me with the same evil.

FYI, I have been nothing but respectful of them, their family and thankful for them raising our child - but it is as I have repeatedly stated.

I'm shocked at how many of you are pretty much saying that shouting at people in front of children is ok, and that I'm not seeing it from the childs POV - when i stated that I was the one trying to protect my child from the torrent of rage spilling from the SM!

I never realised Mumsnet was such a hateful place.

No one's saying shouting in front of the child is okay behaviour. But you've refused to say what the row was about so you can't expect people to believe they were necessarily completely in the wrong.

Why was the stepmum raging? Was it something she thought you'd said or done? Context might help people understand why you're so upset about it.

It's not at all just about the money. People are also rightly asking why you left your baby with a man you describe as abusive and his horrible family.

You can't have it both ways. Either he's not so bad and has done right by her - caring for her, taking sole financial responsibility for her, giving her a happy stable home and a caring stepmum, or he's awful, uncaring, toxic and wasn't a safe person to bring up your joint child. If it's the latter it doesn't reflect that well on you that you left your child with him.

You've been given plenty of advice on going back to court. Which is what you should do if you feel the order is being breached and there's no other way of resolving the issues.

You must have dealt with a fair few opinions and judgements in the real world, do you fly off the handle at them in a rage at the terrible injustice of it all as well?

BacktoBasics -

''Of course when any relationship breaks down there is anger and hostility from BOTH sides and if you felt at that time the best thing to do was distance yourself from your child that is your decision to live with (I am not saying I agree with you as I could never not be in my child's life but you clearly had your own issues)''

At the time, yes, i admitted I had some problems and needed to concentrate on getting better - I am in no way saying that my decision to step back and let the situation calm down a little was his fault, it was my decision, and based on what was happening at the time (which none of you know the full extent of the details), I don't regret stepping back to let things settle a little between the father and I. I regrouped and continued trying to contact the father to get visitation - he repeatedly refused.

''You state though that you were working with shifts only available a week in advance yet not paying CSA (again something you don't wish to go into) but if this was the other way round and it was a dad that was clearly working and not paying for his child he would get the same response as a lot of the replies on here. Regardless of what is happening in your personal life you have brought a child into this world and should support them as you can!''

I was working at the time and WAS paying CSA - it is only later that stopped for varying reasons, none of which I will divulge here, it is too private and contains too many personal details.

''It appears to me (IMO) that you thought you could simply walk back into your child's life and 'pick up where you left off' for use of a better phrase. Now you have been hit with questions / hostility you are going back into the place you were a number of years ago. More woe is me etc''

I have been in contact with the Father and step mother all the way through, expect the couple of months I stepped back - which i mentioned earlier. There are many a time over the years we have got together to discuss any problems one may have had with the other, or any questions/concerns which needed addressing and on every single one of those the meeting turned in to an interogation - The questions are always the same, and whatever answer I give them it just simply isn't good enough. I gave him £1000 of my savings (which i'd previously paid CSA on - still not good enough.

''The SM is the one who has been up in the night whilst your child is sick, held them when they have cried, kissed them better when they have fallen over - you owe her a thank you!''

All along I've respected the SMs relationship with my daughter and the implication I have a problem with her being the SM is slightly grating, but not the issue at hand. I happened to like the SM as a person, although we bumped heads on some issues from time time (like everyone does), on the whole, she is nice. And I've already said that I gave my thanks to her for being there when i couldn't be - even though for a large part of my childs life the Father has actually kept me out the picture, it is not me not taking an interest, as it seems to have been construed.

''It is not going to be easy but you have to show all people involved that you are in this for the long haul and not just to make you feel better. To them they may think this is a passing phase which is only ultimately going to hurt the child. You have to build their trust up too
This is not an attack on you at all - its difficult to see clearly sometimes when you are in the midst of something. I hope it all works out well but you need to have a lot of patience and be prepared to be in this for the long haul.''

Yes, it is very difficult to try to build a meaningful relationship with my child when visitation is hikacked in such a hostile way, I have viewed this from the childs POV - there are things I haven't meantion about the incident in question because it is too much detail for the internet.

''Please put your own feelings aside and concentrate on your child''

That is indeed what I am doing, how can I child feel safe and secure when presented with a confrontation like the one in question.

AnneLovesGilbert

It wasn't until the relationship ended, and I moved out to get help with the issues I'd been left with by him that I realised what had happened in the relationship - I was incredibly fragile and didn't even know I'd been coerced and controlled in such a way. By then it was too late, he'd applied for an RO in my absence - I wasn't informed about it so couldn't be present.

Go back to court if you feel it had been breached. However it seems like you're trying to make yourself out to be some kind of victim and have skewered all of your posts to attempt to show yourself in a good light. It's not worked.