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Original poster

Aibu-BIL & SIL split up - we still want to see the kids

81 replies

mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 08:38

My husbands brother met his partner when they were both really young (late teens). They were together for 13 years and have 2 kids similar ages to ours. We all live in the same town. Over the years they have been off and on a lot. We have always seen the kids for birthdays, family parties, Christmas, school hols, sleepovers etc. My mother in law was always very good to the kids and would make every effort with them. My BILs partner had a bit of a troubled past and used to drink a lot at the weekends and was prone for drama/fighting with my BIL. He was no angel either and they were always arguing esp at weekends. Every time they fell out his partner would phone/text my mother in law and make threats and tell her if she didn't sort out her son then she wouldn't get to see the kids. This went on for years and my MIL tried her best to speak to my BIL and then they would usually make up again and it would all be forgotten. Now it seems they have permanently split up. My BIL has been out of the house for a few months and he has met someone else but it is very early days. He has got himself in a more steady place and has been working away with his job where he has good prospects. He has financially supported his partner for the past 13 years as she has never worked. Now he is going to pay her maintenance every week which seems to be the main thing she is concerned about. Our main concern is getting to see the kids and also for my MIL to get to see them as she adores them and has always kept up a good relationship with them. Do any of you have any advice? I think he will have rights for regular access ? Thanks! Xxx

OP posts:
MsJamieFraser · 06/05/2017 10:29

Exactly KungFu,

needsahalo · 06/05/2017 10:37

The contact doesn't always have to come out of his time neither if your MIL can prove she has established contact and been a part of their lives she would be offered some kind of contact through the courts

Instead of advocating what would be a very aggressive move on the part of BIL's family, why not suggest just asking the SIL and seeing what happens?

OP - much depends on the age of the children. Teenagers can make up their own minds. Younger children have a right to a relationship with both parents but as family, unless you have been very active in their lives, you wouldn't get any support from the courts.

BIL needs to decide what he wants. The longer he leaves it, the harder it will be. Offering a kind, supporting hand to SIL with no strings attached would be a lovely move, particularly if the children are young. How will she manage childcare, for example. Is there support you can offer? A pick once a week and sleep over? If you can see a way to help, offer it. You might be surprised at her reaction.

FlossyMooToo · 06/05/2017 10:45

OPs post at 9:11 states she openly drinks heavly when the kids are there and has all night parties but now thats changed to oh she only drinks on the weekend Hmm

In one post OP is painting the mum as an unfit parent and in the next when questioned why dad would leave them with said unfit parent its all "oh no she only drinks at the weekend" Hmm

Sorry dont buy it. OP is not a fan of the sil and that is clear from her posts.
Bil need to sort out proper contact with his children and he needs to be around to parent them.

As for those saying gp can take tge mother to court for access! Ha! GPs rarely win and only if they can prove they played a very active part in DCs upbringing.
Maybe OP and MIL need to focus on why the dad is not sorting out contact instead of being worried about when they will see DC.

Original poster
mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 11:29

Hi again. Feel as if I need to defend myself here. My SIL loves her kids very much. However things she does are different from what I would do. That is a fact and not meant to be judgemental. I don't want to go into it all. The drinking at weekends is when the fights start and in the past several times the police have been called and later on she has then dropped her complaint. Usually the kids (13 and 11) are at their other grandparents so are in no danger. But the atmosphere and stability for the kids could be uncertain and at times toxic after these arguments. In my mind they might be better apart but I want to best support my BIL and maintain an amicable relationship with my SIL for the sake of my niece and nephew and keep the relationship going between the cousins. I don't want my niece and nephew to think we are not making the effort to see them. I was thinking about contacting my SIL but don't want to muscle in..

OP posts:
FlossyMooToo · 06/05/2017 11:34

Give her an open no strings attached invitation. Make it clear you are not taking sides but should she want to your children can still spend time together.

Tbh your bil needs to establish proper contact first and that has to be done by him.

2rebecca · 06/05/2017 11:35

If you have a really good relationship with your SIL you can contact her but in general I'd keep out. I'm divorced and my extended family see my kids when I take them there and my ex's relatives see the kids when he takes them there, although the kids are now old enough to do their own thing.
Your BIL needs to sort out when he sees his kids and he then decides when it's convenient for him to meet up with you. If he's not seeing much of his kids at the moment then arranging for other family members won't be a priority.
Don't push things.

MNHQ
ToniMumsnet · 06/05/2017 11:39

We will be moving this thread to Legal advice soon.

Original poster
mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 11:40

Thank you!

OP posts:
HildaOg · 06/05/2017 12:21

All you have to do is talk to your bil and sort it out when has them. If your family is looking for separate access on HER time that she's not prepared to give and you then put her in huge stress and financial difficulty by taking her to court then expect the kids to not want anything to do with the lot of you. They will blame you for any stress or hardship you add to their home life.

Original poster
mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 12:32

Hi the last thing my MIL would do would be to go to court she is the most gentle person you would ever know. Hopefully they can get some kind of arrangement amicably sorted.

OP posts:
CrazedZombie · 06/05/2017 12:36

Grandparents don't really have proper rights so don't take the ex to court. That's a sure-fire way to make things nasty. The grandparents who do get access have special circumstances like they lived with the child full-time for several years.

The next step for BIL is to bring the kids to his mum's house when it is his day to take the kids out. Or MIL needs to visit the kids with her son.

happypoobum · 06/05/2017 12:46

OP are you saying you don't think BIL will allow MIL or you to see the DC during his contact?

Original poster
mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 13:00

No he absolutely will. I know he will bring them once he gets something sorted. I think my question was just to get some advice for him. How formal would any arrangement need to be? She can be tricky to deal with and has threatened my MIL in the past with not seeing the kids when they have fallen out. Now they have permanently split what rights do my BIL and MIl have and what is the best way to progress? There are no financial issues at the moment they have agreed a maintenance plan x

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 06/05/2017 13:24

She cannot control who the children see when they are with your BIL.

Whether there is a need for anything formal depends on whether your BIL's ex will be reasonable about contact and stick to any agreement that is reached. It is best if your BIL and his ex can sort it out between them, using mediation if necessary. However, if an agreement is not possible or she fails to stick to any agreement he will have to apply to the courts for contact.

2rebecca · 06/05/2017 13:25

Your MIL has no rights. The kids have a right to see their father but age 11 and 13 will have some input in to how often that will be. Your BIL's best chance of regular access is to get on with his ex and be the sort of person the kids want to see,

happypoobum · 06/05/2017 13:26

I would recommend that for now you let BIL and his ex sort it out and deal direct with BIL re seeing the DC.

If you/MIL get too involved at this stage SIL could feel bullied or cornered and might react badly.

Original poster
mumontherun14 · 06/05/2017 13:36

Thanks! I have been wondering whether or not to text her and say that we are always here for the kids and they are welcome anytime. But she can be volatile. She is usually ok with me but last week sent my MIL some pretty horrible texts. It's all a bit raw at the moment but I've said to my husband that we'll see how my BIL is today and try and get a chat with him. He has always been good with the kids but I think is burying his head in the sand a bit at the moment x

OP posts:
FritzDonovan · 06/05/2017 13:49

Maybe concentrate on giving him a kick up the arse re sorting contact. TBH it doesn't sound like he's in any rush.

FritzDonovan · 06/05/2017 13:51

And if you do text that to sil, make sure you don't sound like you're just worried about seeing the kids and will be excluding her. Could put her back up!

Trifleorbust · 06/05/2017 14:10

Your MIL doesn't have PR. No rights at all.

prh47bridge · 06/05/2017 14:48

Your MIL doesn't have PR. No rights at all

Does not follow. The children are her grandchildren. PR is irrelevant. She can apply to the court for leave to apply for contact. However, provided her son gets adequate contact that shouldn't be necessary.

Trifleorbust · 06/05/2017 14:55

prh47bridge

She can apply, but she has no automatic right to see them. It would need to be decided upon by a court.

prh47bridge · 06/05/2017 15:39

I didn't say she did have an automatic right to see them. No-one has that even if they have PR. The difference between grandparents and parents is that parents automatically have the right to apply for contact, grandparents have to apply to the court for leave to apply for contact, so they have an additional hoop to jump through.

Trifleorbust · 06/05/2017 16:25

prh47bridge

I think this is semantics. The MIL has no automatic rights. It is highly unlikely a court would grant her contact. She needs to tread carefully if she wants to see them.

Starlight2345 · 06/05/2017 17:53

Does BIL have anywhere they can stay. Why doesn't he bring them to MIL for the day?

At 11 and 13 at that age the courts will listen to what the kids want ( should it end up that way)

What is BIL wanting..Has he asked SIL? Because the children have a right to a relationship with both parents bot mum and dads rights.

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