Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Aunt in nursing home and her 'friend' has disposed of her possessions, please advise...

95 replies

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 10/04/2017 23:50

My aunt is in a nursing home and has Alzheimer's disease, she has been there for 2.5 years and my father is legally responsible for her affairs. When she was taken into the home after a fall, her friend remained living in her house, he had moved there a year earlier after his wife was taken into a nursing home where she still remains. The friend is elderly and frail, he was a good companion to my Aunt and so the issue of him living in the house was never challenged as we believe that she would want him to stay there and social services told us that he had rights to remain there due to his age and poor health.

Since my father was granted Deputy for her affairs a few months ago the Office of Public Guardian have met with him and they are concerned about the friend living there without paying rent. The house is owned fully by my Aunt and there is no mortgage, he took over paying all utilities. After another letter from OPG he brought the subject up with the friend who didn't engage with the conversation. My father felt compromised because social services had already advised that because the friend is elderly he couldn't be asked to leave anyway.

2 weeks ago a relative of the friend contacted my father's place of work and told him that the friend had moved out and that they would bring him the keys to the property. This morning they still hadn't brought the keys and so I contacted the relative who said he didn't know where they were as the friend still had them and that he hadn't been to the property other than to drive past to check on it. He said that he could probably get the keys in the next few hours and that we could collect them from him tonight.

There have been a few issues with the friend's family in the past. When my Aunt initially took ill and was taken into hospital his relative gave her own details as her next of kin and emergency contact, she knew my father was always this person but did not even inform him that she had taken ill. He found out a few days later when he went to visit and found that she was not there, the friend told him where she was. When my Aunt was moved to the nursing home a meeting took place between social services, my father and the friend's family. I was not at the meeting but afterwards the friend and his family have made no contact, my father has checked in on the friend a few times but has been made to feel unwelcome.

My father collected the keys today and has been round to find that there is nothing left in the house, the house was fully furnished and full of my Aunt's possessions when she lived there and was filled with same things the last time the friend was visited by my family. Every last possession has gone. My father went to the friend's new house to be told by the friend that he has donated everything to charity and that my father didn't show an interest in any of her things so he gave them all away. He admitted to having the dining suite in his spare room and the cabinet was in his living room. My father didn't ever ask about the possessions previously to this because he didn't want to appear to be hassling an elderly man. He (naively) thought that if the friend left then he would leave my aunt's possessions as they were. It transpires from a neighbour that friend's family were there today after I'd spoken to them about returning the key and the friend has said he'd given a lot of the possessions to them.

My Aunt is still alive, my father is looking after her assets. What on earth can he do from a legal perspective? They have taken the fence, decking, garden gate and a shed. They have also taken all appliances from the kitchen. All that is left is a sofa and a bed.

OP posts:
tatatetelle · 13/04/2017 13:31

Oooh the RAGE!!! Angry Angry Angry Can they prove that your aunt gave them anything? Or would it be a case of your word against theirs?
I hope the solicitors can help you and your dad.

You sound like you're staying very calm and pragmatic OP, hats off to you!!!

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 13/04/2017 13:35

Thank you 😊

I'm actually raging. I've never been so angry. I cried at the police once they told me they couldn't do anything. But I'm trying really, really hard to stay calm. And I daren't think about what's actually happened, it's too awful to comprehend.

Looks like I'll have to ring the solicitor myself as they still haven't phoned back and so nothing is being done.

OP posts:
AdaColeman · 13/04/2017 13:55

I'm so sorry that the police aren't prepared to help your family against these thieves, but I'm not surprized.

A similar thing happened to a friend's mother when a distant relative of hers moved in to "help" her. When he died suddenly it was discovered that he had been "helping" himself to her money.

Even though there was a clear paper trail, the police would take no action against his estate, and his daughter inherited what was my friend's mother's money.
The police attitude seemed to be that because the mother was old it didn't matter, and solicitors also took that line.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, and your poor father must be devastated.

OVienna · 13/04/2017 14:04

Coffee what sort of lawyer are you working through?

Another thought: is there any point in ringing Age Concern? They may have some practical ideas about what you can do, having seen it before, and may in any case be able to offer some sort of counselling/support. I don't know. If it were me I would be tempted to ring.

This is one time I wish the Fail would become interested in us (don't hate me for saying this please) because actually some activism/public interest in all of these stories might be a force for good!

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 13/04/2017 14:48

ada that's terrible!

It seems the solicitors don't care either. I've phoned the one I've been waiting for and she finished at 1.30 for the bank holiday weekend. So she's clearly not interested. I found numbers for 2 more who said they don't deal with this kind of thing and another who has given me a number only one who might. I'm running out of options. Ov thank you for the suggestion of Age Concern, I think they may be my last hope.

A poster asked earlier about photographs taken in the house before. We have a few but nothing that shows anything of any significance really.

OP posts:
Youdontwanttodothat · 13/04/2017 14:49

Age concern are brilliant.

pixiebaby23 · 13/04/2017 14:53

Ask about the police complaints procedure and lodge a complaint. Also contact the police and crime commissioner's office.

AdaColeman · 13/04/2017 14:57

Grasping at straws here Coffee , but insurance companies often have legal help lines for their clients as part of their policy. If you or your Dad have a policy with that available it might be worth a phone call.

crabbyoldbat · 13/04/2017 18:17

Or even your dad as your Aunt's deputy on her house insurance? Hmm - and would they have something to say about the damage done, perhaps, or home contents insurance? Another line of enquiry, anyway

whataboutbob · 13/04/2017 19:55

The Law Society website lists solicitors who are specialist Solicitors for the Elderly, I had dealings with one when my Dad got dementia to talk about care etc, she was very good, helpful, didn't charge stupid money (it was an all in £250 or so fee for a consultation and individualised written advice). She's in SE London if you are at all interested in getting her details pm me.

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 14/04/2017 08:31

whatsboutbob thank you, I'll message you.

It's all looking a bit hopeless tbh, I collected the items the relative said were there and it was old paperwork which has little/no relevance to anything. The worrying part is that on the top was the front page from her will that had been torn off, underneath there was an invoice and receipt to say she had paid for will preparation in 2011. The rest of the will wasn't there. We have a copy of the will we knew about and that was stored with a solicitor. This is a newer will and is stored with a new solicitor. I'm wondering now if they took everything because they knew they were entitled to it all when she dies anyway.

I guess we need to obtain a copy of the will and find out the date of her diagnosis of Alzheimer's to see what came first.

OP posts:
LidlAngel · 14/04/2017 08:57

I have nothing helpful to add here but God I am incensed on your (and your dad's) behalf. So angry. And the fact that this 'friend' is still visiting your aunt is so wrong. Wishing you strength.

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 14/04/2017 09:09

Thanks Lidl, it's awful. I spoke to the friend very briefly when I picked the items up - he was very defensive and got worked up when I asked him where everything was. He said I could go through the drawers if I wanted to. It was unnecessary, if there were items there he could have offered to show me them or even offered to open the drawers himself. I told him it didn't matter and I left within 2 minutes of being there. The items were left out for us on the sofa, yet he denied all knowledge of speaking to the relative who phoned us to say there were things to collect. They're all lying, but it probably doesn't matter as it's too late anyway.

When I say items, it was old useless paper work that doesn't give us information to help with looking after her current assets. I think that family have kept everything because they know they are entitled to it when my aunt dies.

In all seriousness, this is not and has never been about the money. I know I was left most of it in the original will and I never felt that I deserved that. I have told my family that if that money is still left to me it will all go to charity. It's all been tainted now, I just couldn't take it and I'll be honest in the fact that I don't need it. I just hope it doesn't go to that awful bunch of scammers.

Perhaps if we can fight this and it's proven that we don't actually have any 'need' for the money then that might work in our favour. Maybe. Because we have nothing to lose.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 14/04/2017 10:21

Ask about the police complaints procedure and lodge a complaint. Also contact the police and crime commissioner's office

That won't achieve anything.

There is no point the police taking action against anyone unless there is a realistic prospect of being able to prove that they are guilty of theft beyond reasonable doubt. In this case that means the police would have to prove that OP's aunt did not tell her friend that he could have everything if she was moved into a nursing home. She is clearly unable to testify to this effect so there is no realistic chance of a conviction.

Perhaps if we can fight this and it's proven that we don't actually have any 'need' for the money then that might work in our favour

If you are talking about fighting her will if she has left everything to this friend, showing that you don't have any need for the money would go against you. The courts will only interfere in a valid will if it fails to make reasonable provision for the deceased's close relatives or dependents. As she is your aunt and you were not dependent on her you cannot bring a claim. Even if you could, the fact that you don't have any need for the money would mean that it is reasonable for the will to leave you nothing.

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 14/04/2017 10:58

Thank you prh, that information is helpful. I think a lot of this has been done and dusted before she was officially incapable of making decisions. As I said, we've always been around but so have her 'friends' and as an elderly person in sound mind we couldn't interfere ( and until things started to appear odd we wouldn't have wanted to). It seems that this is the situation we are now faced with and is most likely that we just have to accept that they have managed to take everything from her.

It makes sense that this family have taken everything believing that because they are set to inherit everything from the will they were entitled to it. They seem insistent that she 'has no family' and that we don't care about her. At least she is safe in the home, my father is making sure that she has everything she needs and her money is being spent on her and only her. That's the main thing. If they had control of it all now then who knows where she'd have ended up.

It struck me that in her friend's house there were no photographs or momentos of my aunt at all, surely if he cared about her there would be some trace of her in his house.

OP posts:
winewolfhowls · 14/04/2017 16:59

God this is a truly awful story op, I feel rage on your behalf. I have no useful advice but I really hope that you get some justice.

annandale · 14/04/2017 17:14

What a horrific story. As you say, the silver lining is that she is safe now and presumably needn't know any of this has happened?

My father got involved with a scam for a long, long time and the sense of helpless rage and the big loss of confidence in other people is really horrible. I hope you can come to some sort of conclusion, perhaps with Age Concern's help, which you can all accept.

OVienna · 14/04/2017 17:37

Have you managed to speak to the lawyer that other poster recommended OP?

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 14/04/2017 20:07

I'm hoping so annandale, I'm sorry you found yourself in a similar position. I've totally had my eyes opened as to how callous people can be. It's like the cliche goes - you hear about this happening to people but you never see it happening to yourself. Well, it's happening. I just really feel for my parents because they are so full of blame for themselves, I keep reminding them that these people came along when my aunt was seemingly able to make decisions and it wasn't their place to decide who her friends were. She was married but had no children, her husband died about 20 years ago and we are the only family left.

I'm planning on ringing age concern after the bank holiday, I'm hoping they can help us by at least helping us come to terms with it. My parents are in their 60s and have very stressful lives, my father is the relation to my aunt and mum has always stepped back when it comes to decisions about her because she's never felt it was her place. My aunt was always so independent, it's never seemed right that people knew her business. Her biggest fear was ending up with Alzheimer's, the rest of the family died fairly young from it and she saw what it did to them.

Ovi not yet no, I thought I'd do it after the bank holiday as I doubt there would be anyone there to help until Tuesday. But yes, I'm going to message the poster who had a number and see what advice I can get.

Everyone on here has been so lovely, I really appreciate the support and the information.

Does anyone know if my father would be able to view the most recent will and be able to access her medical records to see when her diagnosis was made? He has the court order as deputy to affairs and assets. I'm not sure if that information would have to be kept completely sealed. But it would certainly help us to know.

OP posts:
CoffeeBreakIn5 · 14/04/2017 20:10

And yes annandale she will thankfully never have to know what they did. I can't imagine having to try and explain what's happened, she doesn't even remember the friend and that's what makes me mad too. She still remembers us and recognises us when we visit most of the time, although it does take a while.

OP posts:
whataboutbob · 14/04/2017 22:49

I believe wills are private and if lodged with a solicitor cannot be seen until the testator has died. You might be able to express a concern about your aunt coming under undue pressure/ influence when writing it, if there already were concerns about dementia around 2011. Maybe she visited the GP then and mentioned being worried about her memory?
Does the receipt name the solicitor? (sometimes wills are lodged with banks, not sure if they write them though or just act as executors).

NotNowNow · 15/04/2017 01:12

This is so shocking but perhaps if the friends family genuinely believe they will inherit everything then it's a little more palatable than if they were blatantly stealing.

CoffeeBreakIn5 · 15/04/2017 08:37

notnow yes that's what I was thinking, at least if they thought it was theirs when she died then perhaps it wasn't blatant stealing. Better for my aunt that way at least, but honestly we are not distant and absent family - we've always been very much present and this family have closed in on her to take her things. I doubt they care, there were no photographs or anything linked to my aunt in the friend's house when I went round. That's odd if he cared for her.

I've been wracking my brain all night - I now know the Alzheimer's diagnosis was before December 2011 which is when the will was 'renewed'. I married in this month and it was difficult to get my aunt to my wedding because she was confused. In the end she couldn't cope and another relative took her home and stayed with her. I went round to see her the next day and she was slightly better but it showed us that unfamiliar situations were an issue to her. She was friends with the friend at this point but he didn't live in her house with her. I also saw them at a hospital appointment for my aunt in the November too, she was with the friend and was confused. I don't think he spoke to me if I remember correctly. I went back through my calendars to check the date of this and it was November 11th.

I just want an outcome for my aunt that she wasn't stolen from, that her personal belongings were kept safe and not taken to charity shops/the tip. Whatever their intentions relating to the will her friend has admitted that he doesn't have her things and seems nonchalant as to where they are. I have no idea why they have done this to our family, even if they have kept everything safe why not just tell us that? My aunt obviously liked and respected the friend, I hope he's lying to us about what he's done as that would be better for my aunt.

This is such a mess, I don't even know if the will has been changed. I know that the will was moved from one solicitor to another because it closed down but there is no information to say what date it closed because it happened slowly over a year or so. So maybe the will was just moved and they had to prepare it again so they knew it was legitimate? It's so confusing. I could be just thinking the worst because they have taken her things.

OP posts:
OhtoblazeswithElvira · 15/04/2017 08:55

So this is it? People can go and steal all possessions from a vulnerable person and there's nothing that can be done? Police, solicitors and Social Services not interested, absolutely no come back to these people Shock This must be a way of life for some people - target the vulnerable to make a living.

I am so sorry this is happening OP Flowers Who knew there are people like that out there?

bluebelltippytoes · 15/04/2017 09:48

I used to work for an older people's charity. This is serious and you need to take it further. Your aunt is a vulnerable adult and this is financial abuse/a safeguarding issue. Her furniture and possessions are needed to fund her care home fees. Neither she nor her legal guardian (your Father) authorised their disposal. In the same way, I can't just walk into my neighbour's house and start selling their Royal Worcester china on eBay. It is not mine to sell!

You highlighted your concerns to social services before your aunt went into the care home. They said that the friend needed to stay as he was also vulnerable. It transpires that he has his own property. It seems that there was no investigation by SS into his financial/housing situation.

Both social services and the police are failing in their duty of care to your aunt.

I can't really offer advice beyond this suffice to say that you must pursue this one. The following organisations should be able to help:-

Age UK
0800 169 65 65
www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS78_Safeguarding_older_people_from_abuse_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

Action on Elder Abuse
0808 808 8141
elderabuse.org.uk/

Alzheimer's Society
0300 222 11 22
www.alzheimers.org.uk/

Best of luck!

Swipe left for the next trending thread