My wife's work deduct a days pay when she has to stay at home with our ill child

[DabbyBob]

Hi All.

Just looking for some advise regarding pay rights for a teacher in full time employment - she is employed by the local council and has been in her permanent position for 12years or more.

So every time that she needs to take a day off because one of our children are ill her bosses at the school will deduct a days pay. This makes things really difficult as it puts all the pressure on me to work from home... Which i will do 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes like now (away on business) i cant take the day off.

My wife tells me that its all leagal and that they are within their rights to do this. But for me it just seems so wrong when you have 12 years working there!

I guess the simple question is: is this leagal or does my wife have some rights here?

Thanks.

Is the OP in primary?

Thanks for the explanation, Etak. It doesn't sound like an ideal solution, though, does it? Doesn't constantly getting signed off for stress have implications for your position at work at some point?

[shock ] at all the employers who don't pay sick pay - in spite of all those "militant" unions...

I don't know but many of us are and as you can see from my posts, and others, I am very far from working to rule and indeed in 20+yrs of teaching I have never met a primary teacher who does!

Therefore your scenario of it only being enacted on work to rule teachers doesn't really follow, does it?

I know I am being a bit provocative here but I get so sick of teachers moaning. I know how hard most teachers work. I am one. and so is DH. Young teachers are badly paid I think.
However, it is public money. It isn't like law or accountancy or surveying. It is public money. If teachers are not paid for holidays and their pay is just paid over 12 montjs then they are even better paid as that pay is for 39 weeks not 52.
Our staff complain about anything and everything:
marking and feedback- Head of Maths thinks he should not mark a book outside of a lesson
book scrutinies
quality of scones in canteen, quality of chips in the canteen, canteen nit serving salt with chips
student behaviour
having to set homework
students not doing homework
having to mark homework
having to have lessons observed- 3 lessons a year FFS
having their exam data looked at
being responsible for the progress of the students they teach
their absence being monitored if they hit trigger points- even though it is the same policy across the whole local authority
not getting their yearly salary point when not a single student reached their GCSE target grade in a subject, not one, yet in other subects 90% plus did
the school is too hot
the school is too cold
they don't like the paint colour they chose for their classroom
they teach a full commitment - still have all their PPA and PTR is 12.9:1
not being allowed to go out of school in non-contact lessons- we are paying them to be at work
having a dress code for staff that says they are expected to dress professionally- Head of MFL thinks he should be able to come to work in track suit bottoms and an old jumper and t shirt

We provide:
sandwiches, drinks, snacks and cakes before every parents evening
cake and tea/coffee every staff meeting
breakfast ever staff briefing on Tuesdays
easter eggs
silly staff prize draw every staff meeting
thank you cards 2x a year
dept boxes of biscuitss after exam results
SLT buy the depts they look after something nice at Christmas and after exam results- wine, biscuits, big cake or something
prize draws at CPD
the building is warm and clean and not shabby at all
we are as generous as we can be with money for depts
they get loads of opportunities if they want to step up and do things
we pay for depts to have a day off teaching to work and plan together every year
only 5 staff have full timetable commitments- the rest all have additional non-contact time
they get so much praise and thanks
we accomodate requests where we can for personal issues, send flowers if something sad happens

They NEVER say thank you for any of it- we have been too nice and they are like spoilt children.

I resigned before Christmas so I could work part-time for my friend's consultancy and spend time with 12 month old DS. Not working with moany staff has been a huge relief. Teachers must be one of the most moany negative professions in existence. I would have more respect if it was about the shocking things this government are doing to children but it isn't, it is all about teachers. It's a job- don't do it if it upsets you.

They NEVER have to cover for a colleague

I agree teachers are moaners, but I would still like someone to suggest a workable solution to this problem!

Which problem?

A lot of places have a policy that dependent's leave is only long enough to sort out alternative care. Many people don't have handy retired grandparents.

There are emergency nanny services which would cover some but not all illnesses, otherwise I guess those without a variable annual leave allowance are into discussing a period of parental (unpaid) leave,

Lulu, you see I just don't recognise that at all. Maybe that is pervasive in secondary school but not at primary. We have even less money and certainly never any little treats. Some heads do make you a nice cup of tea during Parents evenings though. I think there's more of staying in it for the love of it at primary though. There is also something I have noticed so just anecdotal really but a lot of the primary teachers who stick it out are married to non teachers earning far more with a far greater degree of flexibility in their jobs.

There is less of 'I hate this shit and I'm so stressed but I need to stick it out until retirement.'

The problem with what to do with unwell children when they are unwell.

I come from a teaching family, and I remember being sent to school when I really was ill. I had a horrible illness in year 2 I think, where even my parents had to concede I couldn't be sent to school, and I remember overhearing them talking in horrified tones about what was to be done with me.

I didn't want my children to ever feel like that, but I think they will and it's rubbish.

having to set homework

Just one example, but why shouldn't this be up to individual teachers, in their professional judgment?

Meh. I moan a bit sometimes. But I'm really tired and really stressed. Sometimes it sounds more like a whimper.

Parent stays at home and looks after them and isn't paid. Or they find someone to look after them. It should not cost an employer.

Come and work for me and you wouldn't get sick pay either till stat kicks in.

You can count my staff sick days on one hand. Unlike the school my wife used to teach in.

Would I be correct in guessing that your wife is now a sahm?

DH had a member of staff complain that the school was being unreasonable monitoring her attendance when she has been off the last 5 working Mondays.

Everything that has been said on this thread is exactly why children end up being sent to school when they are sick.
Last week I actually turned a child away at the door of the classroom because they were ill and their parent had sent them in. It was obvious from one look at the child's colour and demeanour (normally very cheerful) that the child wasn't well and the child minder who brought her in said she had been crying and complaining of a painful throat all morning. One of our trained first aiders agreed so we sent her home. We were right. She had tonsillitis. I was cross she had been sent in but then again when you see how difficult employers are about this - particularly for teachers who have no possibility of using up annual leave then you can understand a big more why parents do it.

If we choose to have children we should not expect employers to subsidise that. Our chilren, we look after them, our responibility, without pay. Why should a teacher be paid to be at home with their child? They are entitled to the time but not the pay.

And I didn't say we should be paid. I simply pointed out the 2 or 3 days a year we work over and above the 8-6 day where it's expected and schools rely on it and teachers give it freely, certainly at primary, yet there's no leeway at the other end.

I'm an older parent and I work in education (children now 21 and 17). I agree with Lulujakey. I intended to retrain as a teacher when the children started school.. I think I could have coped with teaching and the children and even the parents. I could not have coped with the staffroom. I honestly could not believe the make negativity.

It is easy to tell who is in management on this thread

Again, Lentil, many others who do unpaid overtime don't get a paid day off in thanks for their flexibility if a child is sick, especially where cover must be paid for. Teaching isn't unique in that.