My wife's work deduct a days pay when she has to stay at home with our ill child

[DabbyBob]

Hi All.

Just looking for some advise regarding pay rights for a teacher in full time employment - she is employed by the local council and has been in her permanent position for 12years or more.

So every time that she needs to take a day off because one of our children are ill her bosses at the school will deduct a days pay. This makes things really difficult as it puts all the pressure on me to work from home... Which i will do 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes like now (away on business) i cant take the day off.

My wife tells me that its all leagal and that they are within their rights to do this. But for me it just seems so wrong when you have 12 years working there!

I guess the simple question is: is this leagal or does my wife have some rights here?

Thanks.

We'd turn a blind eye the first couple of times but I think if it was a regular thing we'd make them take unpaid emergency leave. If it was a woman with a partner I'd want to know why the partner couldn't take a day off

BitOutOfPractice Wed 03-Feb-16 08:40:27

"there are times when i cant due to client or travel commitments"

I simply don't get that OP. Your DW has "client committments" every day ie the kids. She just has to drop her plans. You don't? Eh? How does that work? Do you simply think your work is more important?

^^
This

Why is your job more important than your wife's? My DH's role is senior to mine and he goes to important meetings too, which occasionally have to be rearranged if we have an ill child. We decide between ourselves who is going to be least inconvenienced by an unplanned day off.

I don't get paid if I am off with a sick child. My employer's absence policy is draconian, 3 absences within 12 months for any reason (whether sick children, own illness, family emergency etcetc) results in a disciplinary hearing. It's shit. I'm currently working my notice because it's unsustainable (there are other reasons but this is a biggie). However, from the company's POV, someone needs to be here doing the job, annual leave aside (25 days + BH's here), reliably. There isn't anyone to do the work whilst I'm not here. It's a fast moving, high stress environment, we have very demanding customers.

Teacher bashing - I am from a family of teachers. I KNOW how hard they work. The fact that I am considering teaching as an alternative career shows that life in the private sector isn't necessarily as rosy as some public sector employees seem to think it is. I already work extra for no pay, I already work extremely long days, I already struggle with what to do with ill children when DH isn't here to share the load with. Teaching would remove the worry about what to do with dc's during the school holidays - and yes I do know that teachers work during the holidays too but it's so much easier to do it around the children than working FT in an office.

Rainbow, the op had already said earlier in the thread that he covers most sick days and his wife only does it when he absolutely cannot. That seems fair.

Jeez some harsh people on here.

I did (of course) mean that she has no choice when to take leave, i guess i could ask my children to 'please try to be ill only during mummies holidays', yes that would work! Thank you for the advise!

Its been eye opening this thread, i really believe that if you commit to full time employment or employing people in a full time position, and if those people are commited workers they deserve some trust and respect. I manage people both Perms and Contractors and i like to think that with my permanent employees i'm respectful of life's difficulties without making life more difficult for them by taking money away when they are having trouble. This i have found tends to make them want to work harder and keeps their enthusiasm for the employer.

If there are employees taking advantage and taking an unfair amount that is another matter and not one that i was intending to discuss.

The thing is OP you don't take a day off do you? You "work from home". When push comes to shove and one of you has to let colleagues / other people down, it's your wife that does it. So you don't actually probably know how your employer would react if you had to take blocks of days off 2 or 3 times a year

Lentil he does it by working from home. Not actually taking a day off. That's completely different imo

Rainbow, the op had already said earlier in the thread that he covers most sick days and his wife only does it when he absolutely cannot. That seems fair.

He works from home. He doesn't take the day off.

I think that you should take days off to look after your sick children in term-time. Presumably your wife is the one who looks after them when they're sick at half-terms and school holidays? I hope you do your share with sick children at weekends and night-time.

And my DH does it by working from home too. That doesn't mean he's not doing his fair share as he actually covers more than me. It's still inconvenient for him and means he needs to cancel a lot at work. So the upshot is that he does more than me and I only need to cover when he absolutely cannot do it (he has often done it quite a few times that year by then)

I guess you work in an environment where if someone is looking after a sick child they can effectively work from home at no extra cost to you or the employer.

If a teacher is off sick their employer has to shell out £250 for a cover, which makes it very different, and financially difficult for schools to be 'progressive'.

Yes of course it's legal. She is not working for them on that day for whatever reason. Why would you expect her to be paid?
A good employer will be flexible and allow it to be covered by annual leave or to work an extra shift in the next week or so but that isn't possible in a teacher's job.

OK, but how do you think this should work for teachers and other people in vital services? I mean in practical terms?

I've never had paid parental leave, but I've always had the kind of job where I could work from home, ie no-one pays for my cover.

That's not the case in a lot of jobs. Cover should be paid for.

So who foots the bill for that in a school?

It comes off the school's budget. So instead of books, we're paying for teaching staff to stay home with their children. That may be ok for 1 - 2 days a year. It's not OK for 1 - 2 days a year for every teacher, in every school though, is it?

And equally, I imagine your own attitude would be severely tested by an employee with a child with long-term health conditions or illness. Compassion is limited by the bottom line in the workplace, every time. And I worked for an extremely compassionate employer, by the way. But even they would have their limits.

Lentil he doesn't do his "fair share" because he doesn't take the flack / fall out / pay reduction. And he doesn't do it at all when he's got client or travel obligations.

I don't see it that way at all. So if he got paid for it, then you'd think it was fairer for him to do it all? So because his work place are understanding then instead of doing 3 of the 5, he should do it all? Would it be better for her to do those he could easily do then him to be forced to do the ones that are more difficult?
My DH is in a very senior position. Nobody really keeps track so when they had chicken pox, I did a week and he did one. I got tuts and moans and he just said he was working from home that week. What you're suggesting is that partners like my DH should take on the entire burden as his work makes it easier. But how does that help anyone teaching without that option. Lots of the tuts come from teachers who have family able to help. If nobody had any help and it was just seen as part of life then there would be less stress all round.

Yup thats the way i see it LentilStew.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett you make a valid point, at the end of the day its the Schools budget that defines it and that is what the management is trying to manage. Unfortunately that then escalates the conversation into taxes and politics. I worked for some time in Denmark, the taxes are absolutely outrageous, but this is the sort of thing that they cover, shame i didn't have kids when i was living there!

No. I have never said either should take the complete burden lentil. Those are words you've put in my mouth.

But you're suggesting that he's not doing his fair share because it's easier for him. Just because he's able to work from home doesn't mean he's not picking up the burden of the sick child.

Otherwise I'm not sure what you're saying. Say in my family, 6 days of child sickness. DH might do 4 and I'll do 2. It's really easy for him to do 4 and really difficult for me to do 2. That doesn't mean he's not pulling his weight. He's already doing more than me. I read this the same way.

Why would you get paid to take an extra day off?

I'm saying one parent picks up the slack when it's easy for them. Then says "not my gig" when it causes them any inconvenience, even though it undoubtedly inconveniences their partner. Then is amazed and affronted when his DP's employer docks her money.

That's what I'm saying. As a parent who covers ALL child sickness incidents

Bit, I agree with you.

Incidentally, many of my relatives run small businesses. If they had to fork out for child sickness days, as well as employee sickness days, then they'd have to stop employing people with children.

But it's always inconvenient for her. I could see your point if it was sometimes inconvenient for both and he disregarded her job but that's not the case. What would you suggest the op does? Cover it all? Prove a point be covering when it's more difficult for him? She'd still have to do 2 days out of the 6. Her SLT would still be pissed off whenever it was. Why bother? I don't understand what you think should happen?
And as I said, personally I don't have an issue with it not being paid. I have an issue with how I'm made to feel about taking it at all. It is a fact of life for parents of young children, surely?

It is always inconvenient for her during term time. She always has clients whose actions and deadlines and meetings cannot be moved, postponed, cancelled, during term time.

So he does all the term time sick bed stuff and she does all the holiday sick bed stuff.

What you're expecting OP is for parents to have even more rights than non-parents. How is that fair? They already get maternity/paternity leave.

It's fair enough time off is given for when the kids get ill. Paid time off is a step too far in my opinion, whether you're a teacher or not.

If both parents are working, losing a day's pay in an emergency is surely not going to make much difference financially. Just make savings elsewhere that month. Some people are so entitled! Having kids is expensive in lots of ways.

If your firm is so family friendly OP, why don't you always look after the kids when they're ill?

It's been the case for teachers for years. As a child (30 odd years ago!), my Dad always took the day off when one of us was ill. Luckily, we were pretty healthy!