My wife's work deduct a days pay when she has to stay at home with our ill child

[DabbyBob]

Hi All.

Just looking for some advise regarding pay rights for a teacher in full time employment - she is employed by the local council and has been in her permanent position for 12years or more.

So every time that she needs to take a day off because one of our children are ill her bosses at the school will deduct a days pay. This makes things really difficult as it puts all the pressure on me to work from home... Which i will do 2/3rds of the time, but sometimes like now (away on business) i cant take the day off.

My wife tells me that its all leagal and that they are within their rights to do this. But for me it just seems so wrong when you have 12 years working there!

I guess the simple question is: is this leagal or does my wife have some rights here?

Thanks.

Your link agrees
These days,workershave a total holiday entitlement of four weeks (to meet the European minimum)pluseight days (the number of bank holidays enjoyed in most of the UK).

That says what we've said!

These days, workers have a total holiday entitlement of four weeks (to meet the European minimum) plus eight days (the number of bank holidays enjoyed in most of the UK).

I wasn't suggesting we should necessarily be paid when our children are ill. Incidentally, Statistically that is more likely to be term time due to herd spread of viruses etc.
I was pointing out that the op had a point about loyalty in that if she's worked for her employer for 12yrs will good record and happily given up all those extra evenings and Saturdays over those 12yrs then (whether practical or not) it is a little unfair that for 2days in one year she cannot be paid for such time off. As U said, logistically difficult I'm sure but the sentiment stands.

A week is a working week ie 5 days (or pro rate if part time)

Lulu as a teacher you do realise your holidays are unpaid?
Having worked in a pretty stressful job in the private sector before moving moving to be a teacher in the state sector I can honestly say the pressure in teaching outweighs every other job I have done. In 16 years I have had 2 or 3 days unpaid leave for DS as a single mum. I have attended funerals unpaid, missed nativity plays, school trips .... Because teachers can't just take holidays to cover these things like public sector workers can. That is where the difference lies.
Over half term I am in school for two days unpaid working on the school play. Every Saturday morning I run a revision session for year 11s (unpaid), in April I am doing a three day residential with 250 children where the earliest I have ever got to bed is 2 am after mopping up tears of homesick 11 year olds (unpaid), Easter break will see me in school running exams skills sessions (unpaid) and in the summer I do 2 weeks summer school where I am paid at a TA rate of pay. Then of course parents evenings, open days (x3), progress days, fayres, discos, proms ....
I get in work for 8, leave at 530 and do a couple of hours every night.

So yes, in the two days I have had to take with DS in 16 years (where I have set suitable work and marked it afterwards), where I cannot take unpaid leave - I think I should actually be paid.
I love my job by the way and won't stop doing any of the extra bits - I just really shouldn't have to justify how hard I work but teachers feel they have to as they are constantly under fire!

School budgets are under huge pressure - why do you think she should be paid? If she is not in work it will cost the school to buy in supply cover. Standard practise in most schools.

Lentil, isn't the problem more around collective service term agreements - there are thousands of teachers nationwide with children and with many years at one school. A private sector team leader probably has more discretion to say "oh, check your email tonight and come in early tomorrow and we'll call it quits" than a school...?

Oh- gotcha. Thought it meant a 7-day week.

Arthur, no pay rise and 50 hours plus is pretty standard for teachers too you know. When we talk about extra hours, the assumption seems to be that we mean between 3pm and 5pm! If only!

Anyway, I'm not actually a teacher who complains about my lot. I'm well qualified and I went in with my eyes open. I just think the sentiment of a two way street expressed by the op has some merit.

Does noone on here get sick pay if they're off work caring for a sick child? You're entitled to up to 10 days p.a. per person (20 for LPs) where I live (not in the UK). I don't see how people with chronically, or even just frequently ill children would manage otherwise.

Teachers only get paid to work 195 days per year. In my school I'm contracted to work 32.5 hours per week. Most weeks I double the hours!

Teachers are poorly paid compared to the responsibility and training they do. A lot of my job is administration that could be done by someone else.

We don't get paid for the holidays at all. We get paid across 12 months.

I get the statutory minimum holiday. It sucks. I can take unpaid leave if required.

In fact probably looking at at cut due to pay being linked to performance (ie results). Very able cohort last year. Did my job well and pushed my unusually large top group to exceed their targets. This year I have 12 in my group of strugglers and only 2 anywhere near that group of 10 from last year. Very transient school so no real tracking data therefore my targets are set to try and achieve or slightly exceed last year's results. I could teach them for 20hours a day and it still wouldn't happen. Not a sausage if a chance! Which will of course scupper any chance of a pay rise for me.

Someone said earlier in the thread, that teachers don't get covered until day 4 of absence. That is not the case in the school I work in. If someone isn't in, for whatever reason, there is no-one to stand in front of the class unless I get a supply teacher in. 4 yr olds cannot be set work to do on their own!
In my LA teachers get one day off, without pay, to sort out emergency care. It will cost more than their day's wage to pay a supply teacher.
It's not helpful to families but it is the way it is.
Day 4 is when the insurance kicks in and pays for a teacher.

DrSeuss, I'm sure logistics play a large part, likewise the fact that we're public sector workers. It's just that so much is expected and the worst but is that it's expected that you'll do it because you love it and you want those children to have a lovely Christmas fayre or be able to participate in the local rounders tournament or swimming gala. It's the same with resources. DH is always complaining about the amount of money I spend on classroom resources. I don't know a single teacher who doesn't spend money on his or her classroom.

Would be interested to know what happens if no one can take the ill child after day 1.

We had nobody to take mine. I took a wk then DH took a week. What else can you do? Really? I'd like to hear suggestions if anyone has them. Suggestions that don't include family or friends as we have none of the former and nine if the later available during the day.

None of the latter. Bloody autocorrect is driving me potty!

I don't either, Lentil, which is why I would be interested to know how it works in practice and if it applies only to children but to any other emergency situation.

I think where teachers, via their militant unions, have shot themselves in the foot is the idiotic "rarely cover" policy.

In the past, it would have been a no brainier to cover sick /caring colleagues. Now everything is tallied to no more than one cover per week. Anything else needs a supply teacher.

I've never been in a rarely cover situation and it hasn't adversely affected my workload or ability to get the job done. It is just a nonsense policy that has so many negative knock-on effects.

'Militant unions'

Once again glad I work in Scotland.

Ginandlag, what are you talking about? How do you suppose such a policy works in my job as a primary teacher? Would I just leave my class to cover s colleague's? Or do you suppose there's another mythical teacher floating around waiting to cover but at the same time refusing to do so due to 'militant unions'?

Uglyswan there is a way around it for people with chronically ill children I have friend who is single mum with dc with long term condition works in a school but not a teacher, she was signed off work by GP with stress - due to family illness - obviously the GP is familiar with her dc medical situation. I suppose this wouldn't work for a short term one off episode of child illness though. I think I agree with a pp about the parent ringing in sick themselves - if you genuinely wouldn't manage financially without being paid. However I suppose this could have its own implications if done too often?

GinandJag even.