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Original poster

Grievance at work

29 replies

Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 21:44

Hello all,

I was called to a meeting at work, where I was likely going to be suspended for misconduct.

On route to this meeting, I started to have a panic attack. I called my manager to let him know he passed the phone to the HR person dealing with my case, I informed him I was unable to attend due to being ill.

I work for the nhs and we are able to self certify for the first five working days, the HR person advised he was removing my right to self certify. I asked him to put this in writing he refused and said I had two choices come to the meeting within the next 60 mins or they could come to me.

Can they just remove your rights to self certify at a moments notice?

Can I start a grievance against the HR rep? If so what would be the likely outcome?

Any advice would be truly appreciated

OP posts:
Figster · 01/06/2015 21:47

Are you intending on self certifying for 5 days? I would just try to attend their meeting asap address it head on they probably think you just trying to avoid the investigation.

StonedGalah · 01/06/2015 21:52

Not sure and hopefully someone will be along to answer.

But if you're sick then go to gp and get officially signed off.

Agree with pp though, if you can and feel ok it's just best to get it over and done with.

Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 21:57

Thanks for the quick reply. I was entitling to self certify for 5 days and during that time go and see my doctor. However they took that right away from me.

OP posts:
MagpieCursedTea · 01/06/2015 21:58

I take it you didn't let them come to you?
It sounds like a stressful situation. Do you have a union rep supporting you?

Newrule · 01/06/2015 22:04

Do they have grounds against you? You may be delaying the inevitable and they are seeing your actions are stalling tactics.

Is it worth the stress? Attend the meeting and fight your corner. Don't complicate things.

I know that everyone has a right to call in sick with at the very least a couple of days to see the doctor and therefore extend their sick leave accordingly.

Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 22:04

I felt bullied into letting them come to my home where I was suspended and I am not part of any Union.

OP posts:
wannabestressfree · 01/06/2015 22:04

You can't put off the inevitable, sorry. I would just attend and take a representative.

Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 22:06

I have been suspended for the breaking rules, surly they of allowed me to self certify.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 22:08

I have been suspended for break the rules, surly they should of allowed me to self certify.

OP posts:
DownWithThisTypeOfThing · 01/06/2015 22:13

Could he have meant that self-certifying wasn't relevant to the meeting - as in if you don't attend - sick or not - they won't reschedule another? So that's what you lose your right to if that makes sense?

I'm just wondering if you heard/interpreted correctly if you were having a panic attack.

Newrule · 01/06/2015 22:20

But only if you are genuinely ill. You should not be allowed to abuse the self-certify system. If they think you are playing games, then I am not surprised they responded as they did.

Nevertheless, you are allowed to call in sick. Just tell them you are ill and will be going to the doctors. Nothing they can do about that. Still if you are genuinely not ill, don't know what advantage it is to you to employ such stalling tactics, especially if you cannot produce a doctor's certificate. They will only get more annoyed and will have no goodwill towards you.

DownWithThisTypeOfThing · 01/06/2015 22:20

THis is what I meant - from CAB website:

If you're too ill to attend the meeting

Your employer should rearrange the date for when you're well enough to attend. You may need to get medical evidence from your GP confirming you're too ill to go.

So they might be saying you can't self -certify in respect of the meeting?

Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 22:22

No he was like yelling down the phone to me saying this was totally unacceptable and if I wanted to class today as sick leave I would need to provide him with a doctors note because he's removed my right to self certify and was unwilling to put this in writing.

OP posts:
Newrule · 01/06/2015 22:25

Do you have a union rep and do you think you have a reasonable defence against the accusation of misconduct?

Unless you resign, you will have to face the music.

Original poster
Jane7kitson · 01/06/2015 22:28

When they came to my home their was bowl full of vomit. Thanks for the advice, but I really wanted to know more around my rights as a employee for 6 years with 6 days off during the last 3 years. Can they just alter you T&Cs of employment at a moments notice regardless if I was about to be suspended.

OP posts:
Newrule · 01/06/2015 22:32

Suggest you speak to your union or an employment lawyer.

Nowfeeltheneedtopost · 01/06/2015 22:33

OP, what do you want to happen here? Are you hoping to delay the disciplinary meeting? Or delay your suspension? Or do you believe you have a case to fight the disciplinary meeting and want to feel well enough to do so? If the latter, I think you need to go to the doctors tomorrow and get a certificate stating your illness. I appreciate that you can usually self-certify but I really wouldn't get sidetracked here by your rights to self certifying or not but instead concentrate on the outcome and, if that is helped by GP certifying, then go that route.

Newrule · 01/06/2015 22:34

Why would you have a bowl of sick waiting there to show them? Was it on display or were you sick while there were there?

DownWithThisTypeOfThing · 01/06/2015 22:47

When they came to my home their was bowl full of vomit.

When did they come around? Was it before today's panic attack & you'd already been off sick?

Figster · 02/06/2015 06:52

They do sound heavy handed however at my work insisting on a dr note to support inability to attend meetings if that nature isn't unheard of.

Were you at work when called to meeting but then headed home? You can imagine how that looked.....like you are guilty and have something to hide. I wouldn't have chased you home but I would have suspended on the phone and followed up in writing and invited you to an investigation meeting.

If you get signed off to avoid this expect to be sent to some occupational health provider who will recommend you return to work and deal with this as until you do your stress/anxiety will continue and it's in your best interests to address. If the OH dr says you are fit to attend meetings you will be expected to whether you have a go note or not.

As a poster up thread said don't get blinded by this self cert issue it will only antagonise the situation all round.

DownWithThisTypeOfThing · 02/06/2015 07:23

Ah I see, they came to your home after you'd said you couldn't go to work to attend the meeting.

In answer, no they can't just decide you in particular are no longer entitled to self-certify but I'm convinced they meant in relation to this meeting - as in "without a doctor's note, we're not postponing".

Is it a particularly serious allegation? Do they need to be seen as acting promptly?

Moreisnnogedag · 02/06/2015 07:40

I agree that they were saying with regards to this meeting you couldn't self-certify. But OP this is all by the by, is the allegation against you justified or not? Not being able to self-cert for that meeting, whether right or wrong, won't change anything else. Are you addressing the main allegation?

lougle · 02/06/2015 07:46

They can't stop you self certifying, but if you're entitled to occupational sick pay they can withhold it if they believe it isn't genuine.

I think a panic attack prior to a disciplinary meeting is quite a reasonable response, tbh, especially if you have done the thing you are accused of, so I wouldn't call that 'sickness'.

Do you think suspension was appropriate and are you likely to be dismissed?

Hoppinggreen · 03/06/2015 11:55

Are you the same poster who is trying to avoid disciplinary action by looking for loopholes in their procedure?
If so it very much looks like you are trying to avoid dealing with this situation and although I can't say I blame you I have to say that you aren't doing yourself any favours.
IF you have done what you are being accused of then you really need to deal with it, in fact even if you haven't you need to so you can move on with your life in whichever direction.
You do have legal rights and having a panic attack is a real and scary thing to deal with but you are just making things worse.
Showing someone a bowl of vomit is irrelevant and dramatic and proves nothing at all.
This is not going to go away, especially if it's Gross Misconduct

FishWithABicycle · 03/06/2015 18:45

For the benefit of MNers following this, here is the OPS other thread