Confusion after death of dad - funeral and money related

[chestnutmare]

I need some advice please. I'll try to include all the details below, as much as I know anyway. This might be long, sorry in advance :)

My dad died a few months ago. We're in Scotland in case it makes a difference. He had no will.

Three kids, me, my brother and sister, all adults. I don't think it's relevant, but my brother and I were adopted by him after he married our mum, they then had my younger sister.

None of us had any contact with him for quite a few years before he died, due to his behaviour before he and my mum split up and divorced. There wasn't much money when they divorced (house was repossessed), they each came away with £7.5k.

When he died (think he was only 62) he had been living in various care homes for several years, due to being unable to care for himself. He had a condition similar to Alzheimer's. He was already in the care home when the divorce was finalised so as far as we know he was never well enough to spend the money.

My siblings and I only found out he had died through word of mouth locally. We weren't even sure which care home he was in when he died, although we believe he had been in a few different ones around the area over the past few years.

His sister (my aunt) contacted my sister after he died to say she'd organise the funeral and did my sister have any requests? My sister said no and so the funeral was organised by my aunt. She originally said it would be a crematorium service but ended up being at the local church. My brother and sister attended the funeral but I did not, as I was abroad at the time.

My sister received a letter from my aunt today, saying that, as my siblings and I are legal next of kin, we are liable for the funeral costs.

What we want to know is, could this be correct? We had no say in any of his care leading up to his death, wasn't even notified when he died, so it seems strange that all of sudden we are next of kin when a bill needs to be paid?

My aunt has been dealing with everything up to now, including the Department of Work and Pensions and the funeral directors. The Department of W&P paid out £2.5k directly to the funeral directors for part payment of the funeral costs, saying that was all the money they held in his name. There was also a small pension payment of £140 paid directly into my aunts account, which she has forwarded onto my sister in the form of a cheque.

I spoke informally to a solicitor today and he said we need to find out if there was anything in his estate. I doubt there'd be much, but his own mother died last year and apparently he was left money by her.

If anyone can shed any light on our situation I'd be really grateful.

Sunna's position would be a bit more understandable is we were talking about someone having to find the money to pay for the cost of a basic minimum cremation. It wouldn't be fair for the aunt to have to pay for the whole cost without help from the wider family in this case (though I would still stand by the principle that relations who had been estranged from the deceased for many years would still not have any obligation)

HOWEVER that is not the situation. The costs in question are the upgrade costs from the basic minimum to a much more expensive effort, with significant costs which could have been entirely avoided. The aunt didn't need to choose to do this, but she did - of her own volition and without anyone else agreeing to contribute to the extra costs. That's why the bill is the aunt's responsibility.

I'm not a lawyer but have had to deal with my parents estates after they died, in Scotland.
The aunt seems to have taken on the role of executor, not sure if she was appointed in a will or not.
The aunt should have made an assesment of the assets as in bank accounts, pension monies, insurance policies, any property, cars, caravans, any household goods that can be sold, jewelery, grants towards funeral costs and also an estimate of liabilities ie funeral, taxes, debts.
The funeral costs should be met by the deceased estate and paid from the estate before any money is disbursed to family ie the £140 sent to the sister that money should have been kept as part of the estate and used towards the costs.
From what I read and was advised at the time of my parents deaths the person who arranges the funeral is the one responsible for the payment.

The law for intestacy is in the Succession (Scotland) Act

The pension payout may not have been an official part of the estate. My pension has the section on what happens when I die worded in a very complex and unintelligible way, which the adviser explained basically means the payout never belongs to the deceased so it can go straight to the beneficiaries without waiting for probate (or being taxed, in the event that the estate is large enough for IHT).

I can't imagine DWP just merrily pay out sums to any Tom Dick or Harry, so the aunt is obviously more involved than the OP and her siblings if she received a pension payment into her own account (rather than it being paid into deceased's account and account frozen due to him dying intestate). Sounds like she may have some sort of power of attorney? She made all the funeral decisions and now seems to be determined to push the costs on to OP and siblings. It's not fair and certainly not acting in good faith. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the aunt knows exactly where the grandmother's residual estate is (if any left by now).

I'm pretty confused about the pension payment that went straight into my aunts bank account. On the letter (from job centre plus, the pension service) it's says its a pension credit for the week prior to his death. She must have been quite involved in his affairs before they paid it directly to her? It makes sense that it didn't form part of the estate, otherwise surely it would have gone directly to the funeral directors along with the DWP payment? Hmmmm.

I strongly suspect there is money somewhere that belongs to our dad, there was the 7k he got from the divorce (my mum got an equal payment which is why we know he got that too) then whatever he got when his own mother died.

We've sent a letter back to the funeral directors, using all the good advice I've had here. On the letter from my aunt, it says her solicitor will be in touch, so we're going to wait and see what happens next, and will likely get proper legal advice ourselves. As I've already said, we're not interested in any sort of inheritance, but if for some reason we're pushed into paying for the funeral costs, we will pursue that, as the costs should come from any money he had.

Thanks :)

It sounds as if she may have a continuing power of attorney giving her authority to deal with your fathers financial affairs. It may be registered in the Books of Council and Session, held by Registers of Scotland. You can search these registers too.

They could have sent this to her, Chestnut. IIRC, my sister received a little of my father's benefits covering the period from his last payment to his death. Maybe she's transferred this because she's realised that she shouldn't have registered herself as next of kin??

There is a list of who's paid first, with the undertakers at the top as stated above. If there's anything left in his estate, this must be used to pay the bill so you should find this out so that's a good idea. If there's anything left after the undertaker/tax man/bills have been paid then you and your siblings can divide it or donate it.

If you do need to become liable for funeral costs then get a solicitor to claim your legal rights agains the estate. Children have a legal right to make a claim even if not named within a will. Legal rights are only on cash and not assets but it would help cover the costs if there is the £7k hidden somewhere.

You need to see the death certificate, will and copy of confirmation.

He died intestate, which means there is no will.
that why I mentioned the Succession (Scotland) Act, as this is the governing legislation.

Off to read about the Succession Act :)

Hate to say this, but it's kind of dry... but it is quite short!

Seriously, go and see a solicitor before you get your aunt's letter (although of course she might just be bluffing). that way you will have all the facts and your solicitor will be ready to fire off a response. Write down all the added expenses you know of, the sums of money she's received (and from where), what funds you think your father might have had etc.

Disputes like this are all too common. I used to run courses on succession and could guarantee that at least one course member would have a story to tell.

Hope you get this sorted out.

Succession Act is really, really bad to read. I did wills and probate as part of my (English) law degree, it was tough.

Ok, have asked my lawyer friend for some recommendations :) you're right, seems sensible to be prepared! My gut feeling is that my aunt is trying to pull a fast one, both with the funeral and his estate.

Glad I asked for help here, first time on the legal board but it's been very useful!

She could very well be Sorry that I wasn't very clear about this earlier. It's not easy to say that she may be doing this.

Glad to hear that, Chestnut. It's best to be prepared.

The information you've given about her expenditure doesn't exactly seem to fall into the category of reasonable expense. Especially the wake, although the specially printed hymn sheets come a close second.

All the best. A strongly worded letter from your solicitor might be all it takes.

I agree KatieKaye. The wake, hymn sheets and a newspaper announcement (!) are all on the bill that was sent to my sister, and totals approx £340.

That's excessive, IMO. What about cars to get her to the funeral?

My father's bank told my sister the wrong advice so she and my mother thought there was less in there than there should have been. My sister earned too much to qualify for help from the DWP so we had to pay it all out of his estate. We paid for the wake from our own funds, cancelled the flowers, cancelled the cars, there were no hymn sheets and my aunt did the newspaper announcement (it was £20 IIRC). The 2.5k covered everything else, so the vicar, the cremation, the car for my dad and the funeral director's services. This was a very basic funeral so there's no reason why your father's cost far more. She can't arrange things and expect other people to pick up the bill.

I can't see cars on the bill. But the bill is a little confusing, only certain things are itemised, such as the things I've mentioned. £1800 of the bill is not itemised. Then the next bit is titled 'payments made on clients behalf' and this part is itemised and totals about £1600.

Been lurking. Hope you get some good advice. Your Aunt sounds like a chancer...