Should I let DP take a share in the house?

[Minki]

DP and I are getting married next month. He has 2 kids aged 11 and 8 and I have 2 boys aged 6 and 4. We don't yet live together. We will be having a pre-nup at my request because there is a lot of equity in my house, which DP and his kids will move into at some point, and I earn significantly more than DP. I got badly burnt in my divorce last year (after my ex had an affair and left us) and spent 30k on solicitors and court proceedings trying to stay in the house so I want to do everything possible to protect myself and the boys and to have peace of mind if things to go wrong. My solicitor has told me that getting re-married is a big risk as pre-nups are not necessarily enforceable and my partner could make a claim on my assets, including on the house. Things are further complicated because my ex still has an interest in the house which is repayable if I do re-marry. That said, I love DP and I want to build a life with him, including by getting married. My solicitor has said that if I must re-marry then to keep everthing separate, i.e. do not let him take a share in the house unless he makes a capital contributions. This creates a couple of problems. First of all, we need capital to pay off my ex who could otherwise apply for an order for sale if we don't repay him. DP was going to sell his house and we would use the proceeds to re-pay my ex and give DP a commensurate share in the property going forward (which will only be around 4% in any event). In addition, DP does not want to pay rent to me and says if he is paying money to live somewhere he wants it to count towards something. My solicitor countered this by saying that DP would need to pay to live somewhere anyway. In addition, I am broke and have very little money to live in so it would make sense to let him pay a share (probably only a 1/3rd share ) of the mortgagae going forward and to split the bills with him. Everyone benefits as DP gets an investment interest plus a bigger property where his kids will get a room each and I start saving a lot on living costs as I really cannot continue the way things are now. The catch is that my solicitor says that I am crazy to give DP an interest in the house, legal or equitable. Who is right and what should I do to protect myself? Bottom line is that I want to stay in the house in the event we split and I want to leave my share of the equity to my kids, all of which is covered in the pre-nup. DP would pay in capital which would give him a 4% interest and pay 1/3rd of the mortgage going forward (I would keep all equity up to the point he starts paying then we split the share 2/3rds to 1/3rd.

But you're not talking about being "with" him. You're talking about marrying him while he still doesn't live with you and won't for the foreseeable future. That's what I don't get.

So you're kick starting all these ££££££ charges by marrying him, but he still won't actually be moving in with you or paying £1k/month towards the mortgage.

Isn't the marriage completely pointless, and/or a bit of a bad idea, until you can live in the same house?

Whatsgoing on, we are aiming to move in together in the next six months, before the charges would be repayable.

I don't know what to say to that. I don't want to sound negative, because there is a chance that it will work out as you hope. But it is a bit like taking a deep breath holding hands and jumping into an abyss with no parachute.

The highest risk is that the marriage breaks down, triggering legal fees at a point where you are also juggling school fees and after school care, without the additional support you are hoping marriage will bring. The legal costs thus incurred have to be less than what you need to pay currently, to make it worthwhile.

That is before you consider the emotional costs of having blended a family, for it to then split up.

Honestly, I think, taking love out of the equation, you are living beyond your means, and this is a business arrangement you hope will allow you to continue doing that. It is actually not your problem if you are further away from xH because you need to downsize to be able to manage your life. At least part of the reason you need to downsize is costs and conditions imposed by his family.

That apart, looking at the practical gains you hope to make by marrying, have you discussed these with your dp? For example, what help you need, how many hours you need him to be at home with the kids, or to do house-keeping, jobs around the house etc. Have you seen evidence of his willingness to help? FWIW, I am a single parent and I have a lady come to the house now for a couple of hours three afternoons a week, plus two mornings, in addition to my childcare. But I live in a small house, so it's the choice between managing my life in a small house or moving to a bigger one which would give us the space we need, but also give me more work and mean I couldn't afford the help. That's my choice and I am not saying it is right for everyone, just that there are different ways around the problem.

But as your heart seems set on marriage, I don't think anyone here will dissuade you. I do think it is interesting that love is the last point you make. I always wonder what love means. In the context of marriage, I think it means being able to imagine, even plan, growing old together. When I stopped seeing my husband in the cottage I visualise for my dotage, I knew things were on the rocks.

Or possibly the fact that I was visualising a cottage for myself, rather than something discussed jointly!

greengrow, I love what your mother said. She was a wise woman. Thank you for sharing that. I am sorry she is no longer with you .

I'm sorry but this is sounding more and more like you are marrying for financial reasons. Wanting DP to pay off the charge, contribute to the household but get little/nothing back in return.

You 'think' your pre nup would be ok. You now admit that your solicitor only have that percentage after being pushed and you don't have anything in writing to colaborate it.

Your own solicitor and solicitors on this thread have said that it is a huge risk but you fail to see it. You expect your DP to pay off your ex

I agree with the poster that says you are not living witching your means. It is that which needs sorting not getting married.

Minki, you cannot marry this man until you, he, his DC and your DC have lived together for at least a year successfully. Blending families is incredibly hard.

DH has a colleague who rushed into Marriage #2 almost as soon as the ink was dry on his divorce papers. He had his kids 50% of the time, his new wife had primary residence of her kids. They lived together for about a month before the wedding, and the kids were still in the honeymoon period. The blending of the families did not work out over the long term, and within 3 years he was going through his second divorce. The worst part from his POV was that his kids, finding it incredibly stressful to live in that high-conflict house, had already decided to move in with their mum (his first wife) by the time he and the second wife separated, and they declined to change the arrangement after his second divorce.

It sounds like you're skint because all your money's going on mortgage payments for a 1.4 million pound house that always has something going wrong with it. Have you considered downsizing to a slightly smaller house, still in the same area, but more modern? Your mortgage payments would go down and you wouldn't need a live-in handyman.

My mum got an expensive house in my parents' divorce and was determined to hang onto it by hook or by crook. Virtually all her salary and maintenance money went on the mortgage payments. Finally after 5 or 6 years she threw in the towel, and moved to a smaller house. It was one of the happiest days of my childhood, because I resented the hell out of that house for making my mum constantly preoccupied with how much money she didn't have.

As for your ex yes he may allow more time for payment but he is absolutely not obliged to do so and could take you back to court.

I'm sure someone has suggested a trial live together. He lets his property and pays some rent to you for a year or or whatever. Then decide if you want to stay together, sell his, share mortgage.

Earthwind, why do you keep saying that I am expecting DP to contribute and get nothing in return? I have said throughout that if he does he would get a share/interest commensurate with his contribution. What is unfair about that? The question is whether I let him do that (see thread title) or if I should NOT let him contribute as this gives me better protection in terms of safeguarding assets. Also, I would not say that I am living beyond my means. The mortgage is less than half my salary and once I stop paying 2k a month on childcare (at the end of this month) and only £800 I will be 1,200k better off so should be able to start paying off my debts. IF we get married then I do have to repay the charges and MAY need DP to help do that but stand a good chance of doing it myself by remortgaging/getting a secured loan etc. As I said, the charge to my FIL needs to be paid off anyhow as interest at 6% starts accruing as of March 2015!

I admit to being completely lost now. In September your childcare costs will go down so you will be £1200 a month better off, but in the OP you say you are broke.

If you will be £1200 a month better off, you can surely afford to remortgage to cover the £105k, leaving enough spare to cover additional house-keeping help. If the payment to xH is only triggered if you remarry, don't remarry.

DP can still move in with you, rent out his home and invest his spare money from the mortgage elsewhere so he is covered for the future. Split your living costs equally, so things are fair, and see how it goes.

I think she is saying they might marry but not move in together at first (but that marriage anyway even if not living together triggers a payment to her ex husband and moving the boyfriend in even if she is not married triggers the payment to the ex husband ); that she is not as strapped for cash as we'd thought as childcare costs about to go down; that she is in love; that a sum payable to the father in law starts accruing interest at 6% in March.

Even in the old days when no one moved in until marriage as otherwise the man would never marry you as holding back on giving him your virginity/sex was your one card, you would move in together once married.

So it sounds like there are some lump sums which have to be paid - FIL(£??) and the ex husband (£104K but only if she marries or cohabits). A remortgage if that is possible might be the best solution around those issues

your DP could change as soon as he has the ring on your finger and turn out to be a gold digging abuser.

I keep saying it because you are only talking in mobetary terms. Does he not get any consideration for any DIY etc?

You see everything in black and white however in divorce there is very much a grey area. If it was all just about who contributes what financially then all SAHP would be left with nothing on divorce. However this never happens.

Contribution to a marriage isn't just about money. You can't just split the children and say you look after yours and I'll look after mine in blended families. Life really doesn't work like that.

No, Earthwind, he doesn't because it is so hard to quantify. And neither do I if Ipay for a couple of holidays. I hear what you say about the lines getting blurred but think in a second marriage things are different. He will not be taking on any childcare responsibiliites for my kids; he can't on 3 days anyway as he will be collecting his own kids from school which is much further away. He and his ex work work part time and have so have no childcare costs. My ex and I work full time and have to pay for childcare. It's neither practical or fair to start meddling with those arrangements. If this was a first marriage then I woudl feel differently if DP was at home looking after OUR kids and support him and give him an equal share in the house. In this case he be at home looking after HIS kids, not mine.

I think you are going to go ahead and marry anyway. Solicitors and people who have experience of what you are going through have told you the risk

If you are only ever going to be responsible for your own children and never the twain shall meet, then how is that a 'family'

As Chunerella has said there is a reason why you don't have that % figure in writing.

I hope for you sake everything works out ok.

They will also be considered 'children of the family' not yours and his if you were to seperate as pp have said.

Earthwind, I don't think that is correct. I also checked this and you have to have parental responsibility in order to be financially responsible for kids. I can only get 205 of my DH's salary out of him for his own kids; I really struggle to see how a court would order me to pay for his kids.

20%!!

Child of the family : a child who has been treated by the married couple as a child belonging to their family whether in fact the biological child of both parents or not. This definition includes step-children.

This is the definition of children of the family.

Where is the definition from?

It's on the divorce jargon buster on the FurleyPage solicitors website. Sorry can't link on my phone.

Have you considered approaching your ex H to ask for a stay of execution on the co-habitation clause of 1-2 yrs on buying him out?

That way, you and your DP could move in together for an interim period to see if it works out. Your charge to your FIL comes due in the Spring anyway, so you would have to work it out as a sole payment.

It's not ideal but ultimately his children's inheritance is at risk if your second marriage breaks down so he may view it as the lessor of two evils.

Your DP could also rent out his property for 2 yrs giving him a small nest egg to bring some equity to the marriage.