Should I let DP take a share in the house?

[Minki]

DP and I are getting married next month. He has 2 kids aged 11 and 8 and I have 2 boys aged 6 and 4. We don't yet live together. We will be having a pre-nup at my request because there is a lot of equity in my house, which DP and his kids will move into at some point, and I earn significantly more than DP. I got badly burnt in my divorce last year (after my ex had an affair and left us) and spent 30k on solicitors and court proceedings trying to stay in the house so I want to do everything possible to protect myself and the boys and to have peace of mind if things to go wrong. My solicitor has told me that getting re-married is a big risk as pre-nups are not necessarily enforceable and my partner could make a claim on my assets, including on the house. Things are further complicated because my ex still has an interest in the house which is repayable if I do re-marry. That said, I love DP and I want to build a life with him, including by getting married. My solicitor has said that if I must re-marry then to keep everthing separate, i.e. do not let him take a share in the house unless he makes a capital contributions. This creates a couple of problems. First of all, we need capital to pay off my ex who could otherwise apply for an order for sale if we don't repay him. DP was going to sell his house and we would use the proceeds to re-pay my ex and give DP a commensurate share in the property going forward (which will only be around 4% in any event). In addition, DP does not want to pay rent to me and says if he is paying money to live somewhere he wants it to count towards something. My solicitor countered this by saying that DP would need to pay to live somewhere anyway. In addition, I am broke and have very little money to live in so it would make sense to let him pay a share (probably only a 1/3rd share ) of the mortgagae going forward and to split the bills with him. Everyone benefits as DP gets an investment interest plus a bigger property where his kids will get a room each and I start saving a lot on living costs as I really cannot continue the way things are now. The catch is that my solicitor says that I am crazy to give DP an interest in the house, legal or equitable. Who is right and what should I do to protect myself? Bottom line is that I want to stay in the house in the event we split and I want to leave my share of the equity to my kids, all of which is covered in the pre-nup. DP would pay in capital which would give him a 4% interest and pay 1/3rd of the mortgage going forward (I would keep all equity up to the point he starts paying then we split the share 2/3rds to 1/3rd.

I don't mean to be rude, honestly - but you would be a fool to do this.

In lots of cases marriage can make a partnership more secure, but for you its going to add layers of complication and vulnerability.

You also have no way of knowing that your pre-nup would be enforceable or respected should you end up in court.

Different circumstances but my dad died when we were children and his life insurance paid off the mortgage on our house, my mum promptly remarried and my stepfather eventually walked away with half of everything - so in effect he profited from my fathers death. We got nothing by the way (which is beside the point). Do not be an idiot, protect yourself and your children, they are relying on you.

And by protect yourself, I mean do NOT marry him - live with him if you must but do not go any further. It is widely thought that my stepfather targeted my mum because she was a comfortable widow.

This whole thing seems like madness. There is no way I would risk my (or my child's) financial future like this on a man who won't even live with you until after you are married and he has his names on your house deed.

If your relationship truly is genuine, then he would be either 1) doing what he has to do to be able to live under the same roof as you, or 2) understanding that things just go on like they are now until such time as 1 is possible.

Both of you have lots to lose by getting married.

As I said up thread if you want a deceleration of trust for your house then I hope that you do the same with the remainder of the money left from his house sale.

However neither of which may be enforceable in court if you were to seperate.

There is no remainder of money left from his house sale. He would be putting it all in but it's a tiny amount compared to the amount of equity I have. Pre-nups are increasingly enforceable in the early years but become less so over time. I love this man and want to build a life with him. Is marriage really not possible?

He will live with me but we have not managed to work that side of it out. We wanted to get married to make that commitment to each other to build a life together.

I understand that you want to make the commitment to building a life together but is it really sensible to do that without really knowing if you can live together?

Surely being able to live alongside each other is the very basic foundation to the rest of your lives? It's the sort of thing you should tackle first before you sign up for forever.

Minki, there is a mumsnetter on here called Mumblechum1. She is a retired family lawyer and professional Will writer. She advertises on the Classifieds board. It might be worth your while getting some advice from her about writing new Wills "in contemplation of marriage". Mumblechum1 has written Wills for me and DP as we are in a very similar position to you and will be marrying next year.

Really Spickle? How have you and your DP worked it out?

DP is here half the week as he has his kids 50% of the time. I have no doubt that WE can live together, it's just how it would work if/when his kids move in.

So you need your dp to sell his place, in order to release the equity which he'll give to pay off your ex? But as you're not ready to live together with the kids, where will he live when he has his kids in the meantime?

Why don't you just keep the status quo? It works - why risk your kids' stability for the sake of a toaster or two?

He will keep living with his kids then sell his place and move into mine. Or move into mine then sell his.

So if he moves into yours where do his kids go given that you said you won't all be living together?

They will move in of course, in the next few months.

Oh. You were talking about if/when you all live together as if it wasn't a certainty.

So in a few months him and his kids are all planning on moving into yours yes?

In which case delay the wedding till you've all lived together for a while, a few months isn't really that long to wait. You also won't need to pay your ex as you won't be married and your dp can keep his current place if things don't work out.

Seriously there's no reason to get married next month.

This doesn't make any sense.

You are getting married now, but with no way of paying off your ex, unless your DP sells his property? So you are dependent on DP to buy your ex out, and then you will be in a position where he will want a share of the property? You will be over a barrel.

Usually, people would marry to strengthen their financial position, but you are doing the exact opposite.

(That is what marriage is about - the "romance" comes from the partners wanting to ensure the financial stability of each other. It shows they care enough to put their money where their mouth is, if you like.)

What will happen to the money your DP gets for his house? Will that be invested in joint names?

Please listen to you solicitor, and really consider what you are doing.

Cohabitation for more than 6 months also triggers repayment of the charge. There is a non-crystallisation period which ends March 2015 so nothing will happen until then. We did discuss which to do first, i.e. marry or live together and felt it was best to marry first then move in as and when it's right for everyone. It's a massive upheaval; his daughter starts a new secondary school in September, they will have to commute. If if doesn't feel right it maybe that we decide to keep separate homes for another year or so. Also, my solicitor is advising to try to keep my asset as separate as possible and not to let him an interest in the house so it could work in my favour to not live together, aside from the small issue of having to pay off my ex. I have a feeling that my ex may not care so much about re-marriage but will care much more if DP and his kids move in. I can totally see that he would want his money back then.

The idea was that DP will get an equitable interest in the house commensurate with the amount he puts in.

Ugggh, I hate to admit it but I know you are all talking sense. I don't think that I am a much better protected waiting until after we have moved in though. I think it's a bigger decision than that, i.e. can I ever marry him? I could wait a few years until I have repaid my ex, assuming that is possible.

Does anyone know what a church blessing involves? Wondering if we could just change the ceremony and have a blessing, still wear rings etc but not be married.

Minki, that is exactly what you should do. Really really, to protect your children. Also your first husband's charge does not operate either unless it also applies to cohabiting which I thought most of them did - check carefully.

No one in their right mind would marry in your situation.

If your partner wants security which is very very sensible he should buy another property such as abuy to let which he pays for in his name as an asset which might go up in value to protect his own children and their future.

Also 60% of second marriages with children fail as children on both sides ad to the stress so I am afraid however much it seems great with lover boy now it is pretty likely that in a year or two you would be divorcing.

I paid my ex on our divorce and I would not risk remarriage. It would be unfair on the children. You can easily have a blessing.

In general terms if you could get higher paid work you might be able to pay your ex of without having to sell the house which is what I did - I had a massive mortgage but that was better than selling the house. It also means your ex can get another mortgage and get on with his life rather than being tied to you owning part of a house which is no use to him.
Perhaps your ex could move in (better if he doesn't as you don't have to tolerate each other's smelly socks and children).... and you both sign a cohabitation agreement which makes it clear he gets no interest in the house. If he wants a property he should buy a separate buy to let as I suggest above so he keeps on the property ladder. He could pay for food and other expenses in the house under the cohabitation agreement.

Thanks Jane. It does also apply to co-habitation for more than 6 months but this is of course harder to prove. I too have every intention of paying him back and and should be able to in a few years as I pay off the mortgage, especially once my youngest goes to school in September as I stop paying so much in childcare costs. I did reasonably well out of the divorce, it was a fair split but DP had put a lot more money into the house by way of deposit than I had. I am aware I have a lot to lose as there is a lot of equity in the house as it has shot up in value and I earn about 3 x as much as DP.

So Jane, would you never re-marry? Too much risk. I love DP, he is great with my kids and I want to marry him. Just sad that I can't.