Should I let DP take a share in the house?

[Minki]

DP and I are getting married next month. He has 2 kids aged 11 and 8 and I have 2 boys aged 6 and 4. We don't yet live together. We will be having a pre-nup at my request because there is a lot of equity in my house, which DP and his kids will move into at some point, and I earn significantly more than DP. I got badly burnt in my divorce last year (after my ex had an affair and left us) and spent 30k on solicitors and court proceedings trying to stay in the house so I want to do everything possible to protect myself and the boys and to have peace of mind if things to go wrong. My solicitor has told me that getting re-married is a big risk as pre-nups are not necessarily enforceable and my partner could make a claim on my assets, including on the house. Things are further complicated because my ex still has an interest in the house which is repayable if I do re-marry. That said, I love DP and I want to build a life with him, including by getting married. My solicitor has said that if I must re-marry then to keep everthing separate, i.e. do not let him take a share in the house unless he makes a capital contributions. This creates a couple of problems. First of all, we need capital to pay off my ex who could otherwise apply for an order for sale if we don't repay him. DP was going to sell his house and we would use the proceeds to re-pay my ex and give DP a commensurate share in the property going forward (which will only be around 4% in any event). In addition, DP does not want to pay rent to me and says if he is paying money to live somewhere he wants it to count towards something. My solicitor countered this by saying that DP would need to pay to live somewhere anyway. In addition, I am broke and have very little money to live in so it would make sense to let him pay a share (probably only a 1/3rd share ) of the mortgagae going forward and to split the bills with him. Everyone benefits as DP gets an investment interest plus a bigger property where his kids will get a room each and I start saving a lot on living costs as I really cannot continue the way things are now. The catch is that my solicitor says that I am crazy to give DP an interest in the house, legal or equitable. Who is right and what should I do to protect myself? Bottom line is that I want to stay in the house in the event we split and I want to leave my share of the equity to my kids, all of which is covered in the pre-nup. DP would pay in capital which would give him a 4% interest and pay 1/3rd of the mortgage going forward (I would keep all equity up to the point he starts paying then we split the share 2/3rds to 1/3rd.

Minki have you posted before about this? I agree you need to tread very carefully and protect your assets.

Do the children get on well? would they all get same financial opportunities etc if you earn a lot more than your dp?

I'm in a similar situation (except I'm still single) in that I own my property and I have a DS. Whilst being in a relationship would be lovely, I'm far more sensible these days and NO relationship is more important than my own financial security, as well as that of DS. Were I to become involved with someone, I would be spending a lot of time with my solicitor to protect myself and DS. I'm nearly 40, and while in my 20s I may have been able to resurrect my finances, I realistically only have so many working years, and need to also consider my retirement. It's also not just me anymore, there's DS to consider. Any man who could not understand my need to protect this is not someone I could build a future with anyway.

OP, please take legal advice, then seek a second opinion, before making ANY decision that could leave you vulnerable. If he really is Mr Right, then he'll understand and be prepared to wait, and to work with you.

Hi Mrs CB (love Jilly Cooper!). I have posted about other similar issues under a different name I think (lots about blending families) but not directly on this issue. The kids do all get on well but there may be differences in how they are treated but mainly just from having different parents. They will sometimes go on different holidays for example, do different activities. My kids MAY go to private school for secondary if I can't get them into a good state school which has been a major bone of contention but one I am not prepared to back down on. My ex and I would fund it and it's for DP and his ex to sort arrangements for their kids.

Thanks MidniteS. I fully intend to take every precaution I can, pre-nup, deed of trust etc but my question is, is this enough for me to take the risk? I love him and I want to marry him. He is amazing with my boys and a great role model. Our kids all love each other. I work full time and have massive living costs. I want a partner and a family rather than feeling like I am batting against the world. I see this as hopefully giving me that and also reducing my living costs.

It was the school thing that rang a bell. I would hold off marrying and moving in together personally.

Could you sell the house and buy somewhere together and put some of the proceeds in trust for your children?

Possibly but we live in London and if we did that we would end up in a 2 bed for 6 of us! I did think though that in a 5-10 years, as the pre-nup gets less enforceable, I could start putting money in trust for the boys.

I should add that my ex has already bought a new 5 bed house and does not need me to repay the interest.

"I have no doubt that WE can live together, it's just how it would work if/when his kids move in."

it's just how it would work if/when his kids move in

You really need to live together ALL of you and see how blending your family work out, before you marry.

He can protect his own assets in other way, like Jane suggested below, by investing in a buy to let property so that there will be a home for him and his kids in future if it does not work out further down the line.

"I love him and I want to marry him. "

If he is so fantastic, and absolutely right for you, he WILL WAIT for the time is right, and he will not pressure you, and he will still be fantastic 3 years after you have moved in together. So marriage can wait.

Minky

DP sold his house and moved in with me for over a year. I paid all bills, he paid for shopping, holidays and days out. Then I decided to sell as it was essentially my home that I had lived in with my late DH and felt that DP was never entirely "at home" there. Our "living together trial" had gone really well, the children were all fine about it, so we decided to move to a new home for a new start.

DP and I bought a house together as Tenants in Common in unequal shares. I put a huge amount of equity into our new home, whereas DP's equity was very little. We have a 75/25 split (documented in a Declaration of Trust), so our wills are written to take account of these percentages, i.e. my 75% will be left to DP, DS and DD. DP's 25% share will be left to me, his DS and his Godaughter. We will both have a life interest in the property which means that the survivor can still live in the house until remarriage or death, when the property will be sold and divided among the beneficiaries. We can always tweak the wills along the way, but at the moment this seems to be ok. Hopefully the children will get their inheritance when they're not too old and grey!

Spickle, are you married or getting married? Does the deed of trust still stand up if you are?

Spickle that sounds like a good plan for people who are unmarried although not when a much older man marries a wife as young as his children who do not then get their inheritance ever as the wife keeps the house until she dies...... If the couple are about the same age it can work fine.

Would I marry again? I do not rule it out although I quite like not having a man around in the house. When you're in love - it's different as you cannot bear not to be apart. I paid my ex nearly £1m on our divorce and ended up £1.3m in debt. It has taken me over 10 years to resurrect the situation. I support all 5 children and am still paying debt incurred from funding him on my divorce so I am not keen to repeat the exercise not matter how in love I might be. Also I want all 5 children to have a fifth of my estate. I don't want any going to a partner at all. If he needs money he can earn and save his own. That might reflect my age however. I have not quite hit menopause but it must be around the corner.

I did know a man who after his divorce bought a property with a new girl friend. She persuaded him to sell his country house and he put in a third for new country property and she 2/3rds (wasn't really her money - she has never worked and her children board - it was from the £3m she got on her divorce). As soon as he moved in she was awful but luckily he had a contract which said he could force a sale. It went to a court hearing and by then she had found rich man number 3 to bail her out who bought out the third share.

On school fees and shared values we both discussed before we married (in my first/only marriage) that we wanted the children at private schools. if people disagree on that it can be a bit difficult. In fact our divorce consent order says I have to pay school and university fees for all 5 children as I earn more than their father and I am happy to pay it. I was not so happy when my ex was paying for a girl friend's child's school fees from the money I gave him on the divorce when he doesn't pay a penny to his own children mind you....

My main concern for Minki is this idea they should marry before living together. Even my daughter who was madly in her love 20s didn't do that and they married after 2 years knowing each other last year and after living together for a while. I cannot see, except because he wants financial advantage, why he would be wanting marriage rushed. Why not just live together unless you are both very religious and then in 2 years if everyone is getting on well you could then marry? If he won't wait two years he is not even as patient as single men in their 20s or 30s. A man his age who has children is lucky to have you and should be prepared to wait. The obligation to pay your ex - do check if it applies on living together or remarriage. I remember the huge relief for me when I remortgaged and paid my ex off every last penny. It was a good feeling even if it left me with £90k a year mortgage costs for a period which was not fun plus 5 sets of school fees.

Also by the way whilst it is hard to be a sole breadwinner in my view the advantages well out weigh the disadvantages. Don 't rule out the living together apart possibility which is what I have done with boyfriends since our divorce.

I'm not married, but getting married next year. The Will has been written "in contemplation of marriage" which means it won't be revoked on marriage. The title deeds show that the house is subject to a Declaration of Trust, so DP cannot sell without my permission (and vice versa). Of course, there is a risk that DP could claim half the house if we were to split once married, so that is something to bear in mind, but I can prove how much money I have put into the new house so would expect to get that back, should our relationship fail, and if I got back what I put in, I would at least be able to buy something else of similar value to my old house, which I would then leave to the children. If you decided to do a Declaration of Trust (a solicitor needed for this), you can specify that you have contributed X amount, DP has contributed X amount and that in the event of the relationship failing, you would both get the same X amount back.

JaneParker - that's good advice. DP and I are similar ages so should be ok for the children to inherit before they are too old. However, it is worth thinking about an interest in the property for a set time limit, i.e. 15/20 years before the property is sold and distributed amongst the beneficiaries.

In my opinion 3 years is still not that long before getting married. Especially when it's risking your childrens inheritance. I would be led solely by your solicitor.

Jane, I absolutely hear you on marriage and am sitting here deciding whether or not to go ahead. I don't think DP has any untoward intentions but at the same time I know that he would want to protect any investment he makes, and rightly so, and would want to get the best for his kids. If I do decide to go ahead, how do you think I could best protect myself? We will have a pre-nup that basically says everything stays separate. It is now getting messier as DP wants to put a small amounts of money in (around 50k, the property is worth 1.4 million!!) and the main reasons I would agree to this are i) we need to pay off my ex who is owed around 100k and ii) DP does not want to live somewhere for free. It may be though that I have to insist that he does not put any money in or pay towards the mortgage but keeps a separate investment. Do you think that will help? It just screws me financially as I will have no means of paying off my ex. On the other hand, it will take 12 months, from next March when the non-crystallisation period finishes, to get an order for sale, assuming he pursues it and I may be able to raise the cash by then or remortgage to borrow the extra, or get a secured loan to do this. Wondering who it is worse to be in debt to though, the bank or my ex!

By getting married you are risking your property. So I would do whatever has been recommended by someone with legal training in this field. I'm sure your dp will go along with your wishes.

Have you already sorted out your prenup? I was under the impression the closer to your wedding, the less likely it is to stand up as your dp could argue he didn't have enough time to consider its implications. Has he had legal advice too?

And I am the same as you Jane in that I want my kids to inherit everything, not DP. And I totally agree that if he wants assets then he can work for them the same way I have. He has a very relaxed job with loads of free time which enables him to look his kids (without using childcare) whereas I am slogging my backside off working full time. I want them to have the benefit of that work.

Hi Marnierose, yes, we have a draft under discussion and need to sign this week. DP is taking independent legal advice.

Hi OP,

Have answered your PM re making a will. I'm currently taking instructions till the end of next week then wrapping things up till the holiday season's over.

To answer your question about prenups in the thread, although there is now case law supporting prenups in certain circs, so far as I know (I'm now retired from family law), the legislation hasn't caught up with the case law, so you shouldn't rely on a prenup. Incidentally, it would have to be signed at least 3 weeks before the wedding day and both parties must have independent legal advice.

My situation is almost identical to yours, apart from I'm not daft enough to get married... I spent very hard times fighting to keep my house and a roof over kids heads after husband left after a lengthy affair in January 2011. The only difference is I got the house and a clean break so owe him nothing, but there is no way I'm risking house and kids inheritance again. My boyfriend feels the same. We also know that a trial period of living together would HAVE to happen.... And even then..... Marriage is unlikely to happen.... Perhaps some kind of commitment ceremony so we still get to have a party! Lol

You sound sensible enough to listen to advice.... Stickle has wise words... I think you are completely crazy to even be contemplating this without living together first!!!!!

Please .... Slow down.... You don't want to risk putting the kids through huge change again without being absolutely certain this is the right thing to do.

I've been with my boyfriend for three years, he doesn't live with me and I've no intention of him doing so.... Until
I'm ready.... He's prepared to wait and if your bloke loves you he will do too... At the very least move In together first!!

Thanks Smo2. Would you not rely on a pre-nup to protect you?

So does none with assets every remarry??

Would you not rely on a pre-nup to protect you?

Pre nups may be looked at but at the moment in law they don't trump the laws around financial resolution.

As people have said they can't be relayed on.