Chances of my brother/parents getting custody of niece?

[auntyimmy]

Hi and I hope someone can help here.

My brother has a daughter who is 8. He split with the mother when she was 2, then she moved away and he hasnt seen her much since. Now this is partly his own stupid fault as he doesnt like committing to things or talking about things so hes never really made proper arrangements. But our parents used to get niece and have her to stay for holidays and then the mother stopped this when my brother moved in with them.

She said my brother cannot look after her on his own as there is rumours about his mental state. Well he has been very depressed missing his children (he has another son who he doesn't get to see as well) and had some trouble a couple of years ago but is getting treatment now and is not a danger to anyone at all. But the mother wants evidence he is ok! Why on earth should he have to provide evidence to her? Parents have told her lots of times that he is fine but she won't beleive it and now we havent had her to stay for three years

The mother has always just said we can visit niece where they live but its a long journey which doesnt seem fair we should have to do all that travelling only for a few hours with her.

Now things are even worse as we have found out she has moved to live at a hippy traveller site and now neice is living in a caravan without proper heating or running water. So parents and brother are thinking about trying for custody and definitely overnight visits as we all miss her so badly and want to see her and spend time with her and its horrible to think of her living somewhere like that.

My brother has his faults and was a bad partner and hasnt really lived up to his responsibilities in the past but with our parents help he would be able to look after her. The mother is very unreasonable, she wont talk to my parents on the phone just shouts at them if they try, says she will only talk to my brother but he doesnt deal well with that sort of thing and finds it stressful talking to her. He loves his daughter so very much and misses her a lot, this has broken his heart that he isnt trusted to have her and that the mother has turned out to be so unfair.

They are going to see a soliciter next week but thought maybe someone here would have some good advice about what the chances are, and what to say.

If he's not fit for work it's understandable that she wants evidence that he's okay to have his daughter visit.
I don't understand why he is refusing to provide evidence if he genuinely wants time with his daughter?

Yes ValiumSingleton he pays mantainance every week from his sickness money.

His son is only 2 Goblinchild. And no he doesnt see him either but for different reasons and they are nothing to do with whther he sees his daughter.

I do appreciate everyones advice and obviously it is dissappointing to have people say we would maybe not even get overnight visits. Seems like fathers have to work many times harder than mothers to prove their worth as a parent. Nobody is perfect, my brother included, the mother is far from it herself. I could say all sorts about things she has said and done, screamed abuse at my mother and never apologised, dragged neice all over the place to parties and mixed with all kinds of people you would not want your child near, the living in a caravan is just the last straw really. I dont think it would change anybodies mind though, not from what you have all said here, but it is good in a way to hear honesty about how it works and how little chance we have

And as for why he doesnt visit more, well a ticket there would cost his whole weeks money! And my parents cannot drive him all the time they have work amd lives of ther own.

Have we saved you money at the solicitors?
If I was here, I'd cut all contact.
You sound a very unpleasant family to be involved with, filled with grievances and possessiveness and no sense of responsibility towards what is best for the child.
Her mother has a new partner, she has siblings now. .
Unless there is documented evidence of true, continuous neglect or abuse, you and yours are unlikely to be taken seriously.
Living in a caravan and being taken to parties doesn't count.

"Seems like fathers have to work many times harder than mothers to prove their worth as a parent"
It doesn't sound like he's worked very hard at parenting.

Are you a mother auntyimmy?

But he will get overnight visits if he puts the groundwork in. If he won't then he won't. She is only 8 so there is another 10 years until she is 18 and he could have overnight visits for 9 of them if he started building up regular contact now. Plus he would have an adult relationship with her too.

He is not having to work harder to prove himself than his dds mother is. All he has to do is maintain contact, pick up the phone, write a card, send photos, visit twice a month instead of twice a year. Its a piece of piss compared to being the 24/7 parent. He left her and has hardly seen her, her mother chose not too. Her mother could have left too and the child go into foster care or be adopted but she chose to stick by her look after her. That is her proving herself. Your bro otoh left, didn't maintain contact, only visits twice a year and even then not under his own steam and doesn't seem to be all that in control of his own life (no job, MH problems, lives with his mother, can't have a phone conversation, 2 abandoned children). He is just being asked to do very basic ordinary things, not prove himself many times over.

No, she doesn't sound perfect. And I hope she won't cut contact - it's absolutely great that your brother wants to be a father to his daughter. But here's the thing... when your niece's mother was 'dragging her to parties' she was being with her daughter. When she was 'mixing with all sorts' (seeing her friends?) she was being with her daughter. When she has been 'living in a caravan' she has been with her daughter. She has been with her. All the time. A lot of people, me included, would see that as the heart and essence of parenthood. And your brother? Where has he been? Where is he now? Where is your niece's half-brother, who perhaps doesn't live so far away?

For a starting point, what about writing a postcard to his daughter, every day? That way it's open communication, her mother can read it too, it's cheap, simple, he doesn't have to talk to anybody (not even his daughter). It would demonstrate a lot of commitment but in fact it would only be a couple of lines, perhaps 2 or 3 minutes of his time. It could mean a lot to his daughter in the time between visits. Just a suggestion.

"Seems like fathers have to work many times harder than mothers to prove their worth as a parent"

Really? The fact that you are considering taking this woman to court for custody of her child that she has looked after for the past 6 years alone would suggest that you are expecting her to prove her worth beyond what is reasonable in this situation. Do you think that is fair on her? Do you not think that the fact she has looked after her child for 6 years merits some distinction and that anything your brother has to offer would have to be at least equal to that. Remind us again what parenting your brother has actually done? Because it you have been extremely vague and you have mainly alluded to it rather than stated.
And saying he would be a better parent actually belies his actions.

It is probably true that fathers have to work harder than mothers to get custody.

But your brother has not worked at all at this!

Why doesn't he see his son?

Agree with what everyone else is saying. The first rule of parenting: It's not about you anymore.

He needs to recognise this and stop demanding and start giving. The daily postcards is a great idea to establishing regular, open contact.

He does not see his son because his mother left him for another man and will not tell him where they are living or answer the phone and ignores letters. He is trying to find out and he has not 'abandoned' his children! He isnt getting a chance to do parenting himself.

I am not a mum yet no but that doesnt mean I cannt have opinions or feelings on the situation.

So let me get this right: two women, two kids, both think he's not worthy of being a parent to their respective children?
If I was a solicitor, I'd politely show him the door and advise a condom next time.

I am sorry your neice is in this situation. She deserves to have as many adults as possible in her life who love her and want the best for her.

But I'm sorry, I don't think her paternal family want the best for her. It sounds as if you are in some sort of competition and moaning about how 'unfair' it all is.

Why should he have to prove himself to her? Er, well because he hasn't been part of his daughter's life for six years and he has well documented problems.

Either you take a more conciliatory attitude and understand WHY the mother is so upset and angry and do everything you can to reassure her and provide her with the info she needs... or you carry on like this and nobody wins, least of all your neice.

My daughter is a 340 mile round trip away, I've been over to see her three times since she started uni. It takes effort and commitment.
I love the postcard idea, a good way of communicating without threatening.

Gay40 "If I was a solicitor, I'd politely show him the door and advise a condom next time"

OP - I'm speechless at your and your family's attitude. You brother is behaving like a total loser. This is a child, a person, we're talking about here, with friends, feelings, a life, not an object to be passed around. It wouldn't even be fair to treat a dog like that, just snatch it from it's owner just because you felt like it.

He does have the chance to be a parent to his dd. He is making a conscious choice not to. He can write if he wants, he can visit if he wants he can be respectful and courteous to the person who is paramount in her life if he wants, he can provide proof of his mental state if he wants, he can commit to things if he wants, he can talk about things with her mother if he wants, he can prove that he is more responsible than he used to be if he wants, he could acknowledge that 'being uncomfortable' is a shitty reason not to visit his child and possibly the feelings and emotional wellbeing of an 8 yo girl are more important than not wanting to be 'watched' if he wants, he could ask for supervised access at a contact centre if he wants. If he doesn't want to then what is her mother supposed to do? Hand over residency of the child she has singlehandedly raised? Send her precious child away with a man who can't stick to an arrangement, has constantly let her down and is so mentally fragile he can't work or talk on the phone.

Do you think its possible that you are looking at this situation through your protective sister goggles?

Residency and access are about the needs of the child, not the percieved rights of the adults. He doesn't seem to have done anything that would suggest that increased contact would meet a currently unfilled need in the child. In reality he is not even taking the contact currently on offer.

Am just speechless that with no grounds whatsoever another woman would support the removal of somebody's child to give to a man with no track record of interest or responsibility.
The best thing you and your family can do is keep in touch, email, buy her a mobile and top it up and see this child regularly.
Do not drag her mother through the courts, you will rightly loose and look like the bad guys.

Your brother sounds useless. Why should the mother of his child discuss everything through his parents, as if he was a child himself?

I would have reacted in exactly the same way, and I don't blame her one jot. "Doesn't deal with that sort of thing" - doesn't seem to deal with much if there's ANOTHER child he isn't allowed to see. Aren't you seeing the pattern?

Visit your neice if you want to see her. Why should your neice have to do all that travelling to stay with a father who, although loving, is incompetant and doesn't know her?

The mother wants the same level of evidence that your brother is mentally stable as you would want of a brain surgeon about to perform surgery after having a mental episode. YOU say he's fine and getting treatment, the girl's mother might be quite well aware of what a lunatic he can be.

I wouldn't judge a family who live in a caravan.

Baby Jesus was born in a stable, and he still made a difference in this world.

Sorry that your poor niece is going through this. I bet she will feel more favourably to her father if he shows some real commitment in bothering to visit her. (after all - if this did go to court, she would be asked her opinion) Coach tickets are inexpensive and train tickets can work out good value if booked in advance.

In the meantime, good luck with your brother's job hunting.

As for youir bid for custody - don't you dare attempt to remove a child from a mother who is raising her alne with no support just because you, he aunt, miss her. If her father missed her he's do something about it. If he isn't cap[able of doing something about it, he isn't fit to be looking after her anyway. You, frankly, sound a little bit out of touch with reality and incredibly self centred.

Have you not given even a moment's thought o the impact of removing an eight year old child from a perfectly good parent to live with an extended family and a disinterested and incapable father? Never bloody MIND what you want, what about what the child wants?

So she lives in a caravan - so what? You've no evidence of neglect or abuse, you've no grounds whatsoever to seek custody. for God's sake, screw your grown up head back on.

I'm not even going to ask if you have children - you so clearly don't.

Stop being a silly cow OP.
Going for custody?! you and yours sound sodding ridiculous.

Look at your DB, would you ever consider having a child with a man who possesed all his 'qualities'?

Do you honestly think he is responsible enough to parent a child he hasn't looked after for a long time?
He clearly has issues, and whilst its good that he wants to have more contact etc, he has to prove himself first and take things slow because the bottom line is, he is the one who fucked up.
He can not just waltz in and demand to be treated exactly the same, it doesn't work like that, sorry.

He sounds like he is full of excuses and regret, but isn't prepared to make up for his failures.
It also seems like your parents want this more than him.
Which shouldn't be the case.

Why don't you come back when you've had a child and say sorry for this offensive drivel.

If your parents have 'lives of their own' that mean they won't facilitate contact more than twice a year why on earth do they want residency of an 8yo child .

And if a ticket would cost a whole weeks money (which I find hard to believe as its only 150 miles) why doesn't he visit once a month instead of never? Its not like he has any bills to pay.