How on Earth do British families manage?

[Dappy1212]

I have grown up in both Pakistani and British cultures and love and hate aspects of them both. It's great being bicultural because you have a real perspective and understanding of the society you live in and aren't afraid to questions how/why things are done.

I grew up as a child leaning more to cultural norms in a Pakistani society and then from the 18 onwards more towards British cultural norms (moving out of home, meeting new people, being career focused ect). I am now married with 2 kids, live 1.5 hrs from my family and 30 mins from DHs. We see our family 3 times a week and make every effort to since moving further away for our careers. They are as supportive as can be but of course there are limitations to supporting each other due to distance and work.

Recently I've been taking on more of my Pakistani culture. Cooking Pakistani foods because it's quick and healthy and abandoning the kids sleep schedule and letting them sleep anywhere. Pakistani culture is very family orientated. I always wanted a big family but can't see how it's possible for me to manage without living closer to in laws and maybe taking a break from my career.

My sister and cousins live in a more collectivist way compared to me, they have between 2-5 kids. They share the school runs, share food and have the kids over at each others giving everyone a break. This is how I grew up too. They are mostly professionals and worked part time initially but have recently taken a short career break. They will likely go back to work at some point.

I just can't imagine how stressful it must be for British families in the UK with more than 2 kids. I'm guessing this is why families are smaller. I think I'm going to go back to DHs community and live close by to in laws as I just can't see things working another way.

How do women juggle children, families, social life, housework, careers without the support of a collectivist society? It seems like an impossible task and a bit lonely at times. DH is great and gives more than he can in all aspects of my life but it's just too big a task for 2 people to manage.

Your post has irrationally annoyed me.

My parents live an 11-12 hour flight away.

This is a very interesting question!

I don't have an answer, so am just musing on my situation.

I am not from the UK but from a White British ethnic background. I have parents who live abroad and they are near my sister and do lots of hand on work for her. I defintiely don't have a larger family here - 2 DCs. DH's parents are dead and we are not close geographically to any other family member. We have literally no external support (olther than what we pay for in terms of childminders when the boys were very young) and one of mine has special needs and medical needs which among other things make baysitting really hard. So we are a small single family unit of 4.

I think in my culture family support is a 'nice to have' but not neccessarily a given. I am not sure if that would be different if we had family nearby. On occasion I feel resentful for the lack of practical support we get but on the whole I would say i see my family unit as very separate from extended family- again maybe because there is a big geographical separation. I feel most closely and intimately bonded with my husband and my children. It's just us, a team. I would very probably get slightly jealous if I had family members taking over a maternal/paternal type role I think.

But this is also I guess how I was brought up. DH went to boarding school at 7 and was never close to his family. His parents worked abroad so the holidays he usually stayed with his grandparents or at school. My family it was just the 4 of us as well and my parents had no extended family support at all. (Due to distance again and ill-health of their respective parents). So my norm is small family unit, largely isolated from family and with a limited sense of community. I don't mind it- It's what I have always known.

I am so sorry .... 😭

My in laws support us help with school run (collecting once a week). If we want to go out we ask them/or a babysitter. I guess we’re just a unit of 4. I thought am from a very similar culture to you. For example I became my grandmother’s when I was born - of course I wasn’t actually hers but my parents worked long hours. We all lived together and I shared her bedroom.

my Aunt and Uncle lived on the same road as did my dad’s cousins. So very much like your culture.

I have 4 DC and no local family. DH and I have managed fine with jobs and kids and doing rather well….
My “Asian” family is very lazy and does not help or lift a finger. Rather, they expect free holidays to come and stay with us. We have had to put our feet down over the years.
It is not necessarily culture. Some people are hard workers and supportive and do all they can to help out. Others don’t. Across all cultures.

If you can afford it, you use nannies, childminders, after school clubs, cleaners, convenience food, holiday clubs etc. Basically you pay someone to fill in the bits that would be done by relatives in an extended family. With a bit of family help thrown in if you have it.

If you can't afford it, you struggle! I guess with a large family you would probably expect to see a SAHM who is either a super organised supermum or a bit exhausted and worn out by it all, or somewhere in between.

The Pakistani way of doing things sounds very nice in many ways - on my street there are a few houses with an extended Pakistani heritage family where they share school runs, always in and out of each other's houses etc. They don't want much to do with us! (white British). I quite often think of how we're taking different approaches to the same job (kids the same ages) and whether their way is better.

I guess the downside with that way of living is that you have to work on family relationships constantly, which might not always be straightforward, and you are under pressure to keep to a certain lifestyle and have less privacy, fixed gender roles, responsibility for caring duties falls on women whether they like it or not. Or maybe not, you know more than me!

Thank you for sharing! It's definitely good to have an insight into how different families do things.

Hmm

We had 3 kids under 4.5 and always both worked FT in high powered jobs (not always earning a lot eg never afforded a nanny)

Solutions us and neighbours in same boat:

• live within a golden triangle of 'on foot': tube, nursery, primary, after school club and secondary school. Eg next year all 3 of my kids walk to schools;

• live somewhere lots of kids activities walking distance eg ballet football rugby (so kids can take themselves age 10 up & 10m walk to collect);

• born parents are always 'all in' and 50/50;

• use a cleaner (in busy times we have 10h a week inc bed sheets);

• other families are the same so lots of shared exp and people help out;

• make sure you have good babysitters;

• we've had a lodger for 5y who listens out for kids when they're in bed so we can have a night out;

• all the pubs are walking distance etx so fab social life other parents

Tbh it's all fine. On holiday when younger we used first choice holidays with childcare for 3h a day for a break.

Don't over think it. Life's what you make it.

I agree OP, its so much easier with family around.

I am Asian, and also used to live 1.5h away from parents and found it incredibly lonely (ILs were no help whatsoever).

Since moving closer to my parents (10mins away), we are constantly going over there, my parents help me out by dropping my DC to clubs etc if I am working (I'm a single parent), and sending over food etc, whilst my siblings are always on hand if needed too.

They do drive me crazy at times, but overall the benefit is huge, and DC see themselves as very much embedded in a wider support network, and not just dependant on me. I love it and would not do it any differently.

I find your post incredibly interesting.

My own family (parents and aunties etc) still live in a collective way as you so aptly put it, but lots of people don't and we don't either with our dc - we much prefer our independence!

I don't want to be tied to seeing family three times a week, I have lots of friends, work and interests so I don't want or need to see my family as often as you do.

Most British families organise themselves so they can manage without being dependent. They drop their children off at school, take responsibility for themselves. Bigger families have hired help or older children to pitch in.

The usual rate was 2 children for each family - which is ample, and many people have only children now. Why do you want so many children? Are you not creating a co-dependency by having more children than you and dh can reasonably manage?

Independence is greatly revered in British life, co dependent on in laws not so much.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both set ups, but I guess if having lots of children is important to you then having support if you can't pay for it, is better for you.

I personally wouldn't want to give up work, my life for loads of kids. What would be the point? It is hard work, expensive and exhausting - and I love children.

I find the balance of family life/work and children works for us, but I am British. The collective sounds very supportive.

I’m sure it’s easier to have family close by. We were fine really due to using a good nanny and me not being stuck with it all. A cleaner too, and activities. Helps share the load.

The vast majority of the people doing the "village" work in raising a child are women. In cultures where women having careers is the norm, the village is less prevalent because they're working. In cultures where women don't traditionally work, the village is prevalent because that is their role.

I'm a single mum with no backup. The answer for me, is planning. I work full time, professional role, so I plan everything and stick to the schedule. I cook from scratch but that's easy. All the other stuff, homework, social stuff etc has its allocated time.

And I don't want a large family. I grew up in a large family and disliked it - noisy, crowded, no privacy, too little of everything to go around.

Small family with time & money to enjoy together suits us much better.

British women mostly don't want to be tied down doing the grunt work and having lots of kids, it largely boils down to equality, independence and having a life outside the home/village.

I know several British families where there were several children and no outside help. They managed!!

@jugglingalways @Dogtooth Thanks for the advice! I think I will need a cleaner ....
And I admire you both for working FT! Did you ever feel like you weren't spending enough time with the kids? Or did the extra cash mean you spent more quality time with the kids?

I won't be able to move now anyway til we save enough. I definitely would have to host more, have less privacy and me time but gender roles wouldn't be an issue. Me and DH hope to both work part time when I finish mat leave and will split childcare if this actually works out the way we want it to in our heads.

This is not just British families, it's how most of Europe lives. American mothers ho back to work after 6 weeks.
All alive and 'coping'.

You don’t mention the children’s fathers in your post. In my village, you’ll see dads doing drop off and pick up as the norm. Can’t say that they are pulling their weight behind closed doors with laundry etc but certainly they do their bit in terms of school and extra curriculars.

The family set up (constant visits etc) sounds like my idea of hell! We paid for childcare to work and have a solid network of friends who would help out in a pinch. Our families are either a flight or an hour away.

Our friend network provides the “gang of kids to run around with” at the park etc.

I can’t see much of an argument for a large family, to be honest.

You haven't answered what the motivation is to have more and more kids op?

Is that cultural or an expectation on you?

I've not lived near my family because we moved for work reasons. I stayed at home when my kids were young then worked part time, we bought in support as required eg babysitting. It wasn't stressful, but we we living on decent money (not high mind you). Nothing would stress me out more than having family that close, sorry I live being hours away!!!

By the way despite being white British, my kids slept with us until they didn't want to, so much more natural. Sleep schedule however is essential when in school otherwise they are overtired and can't learn. We eat at least 50.% Asian food as I prefer it, so easy to prepare and cheap too - dal, rice, pickled vegetables, fish

I’m a single parent to two children (father long term absent) so appreciate different circumstance though perhaps similar as less support than a two parent family. I have no family or help nearby and a stressful full time professional job.

I manage by ensuring my commute is minimal between home, school and work. Rely on after school clubs. Batch cook so always have plenty of food quick to heat from freezer if there’s no time for cooking. Ensure bedtimes are strict so I have time to either catch up with work in the evening or unwind. Then weekends are spent as quality time with children. It works for me and we all live a happy life but it is tough. If I had an option to belong to a ‘community’ with family help then I would jump at the chance.

I am acutely aware of the climate impact of a bigger and bigger population, and we reached 8 billion just yesterday.

For me, valuing the planet, my impact and how we can minimise the damage is more important than having more children. The planet we leave our children has to be habitable, sustainable and in better shape than it is now.

How do women juggle children, families, social life, housework, careers without the support of a collectivist society? It seems like an impossible task and a bit lonely at times. DH is great and gives more than he can in all aspects of my life but it's just too big a task for 2 people to manage

Didn't have more than two kids, DH does 50/50 childcare, one or both parents worked part time when DDs were younger, we had a cleaner, didn't have second child until first would be in school after mat leave, grandparents looked after them for one day a week.

And we had a really good childminder then a nanny for a short while when they were older.