How on Earth do British families manage?

[Dappy1212]

I have grown up in both Pakistani and British cultures and love and hate aspects of them both. It's great being bicultural because you have a real perspective and understanding of the society you live in and aren't afraid to questions how/why things are done.

I grew up as a child leaning more to cultural norms in a Pakistani society and then from the 18 onwards more towards British cultural norms (moving out of home, meeting new people, being career focused ect). I am now married with 2 kids, live 1.5 hrs from my family and 30 mins from DHs. We see our family 3 times a week and make every effort to since moving further away for our careers. They are as supportive as can be but of course there are limitations to supporting each other due to distance and work.

Recently I've been taking on more of my Pakistani culture. Cooking Pakistani foods because it's quick and healthy and abandoning the kids sleep schedule and letting them sleep anywhere. Pakistani culture is very family orientated. I always wanted a big family but can't see how it's possible for me to manage without living closer to in laws and maybe taking a break from my career.

My sister and cousins live in a more collectivist way compared to me, they have between 2-5 kids. They share the school runs, share food and have the kids over at each others giving everyone a break. This is how I grew up too. They are mostly professionals and worked part time initially but have recently taken a short career break. They will likely go back to work at some point.

I just can't imagine how stressful it must be for British families in the UK with more than 2 kids. I'm guessing this is why families are smaller. I think I'm going to go back to DHs community and live close by to in laws as I just can't see things working another way.

How do women juggle children, families, social life, housework, careers without the support of a collectivist society? It seems like an impossible task and a bit lonely at times. DH is great and gives more than he can in all aspects of my life but it's just too big a task for 2 people to manage.

DH is set on having two kids for the reasons you mentioned but I really want more because I grew up in a big family without very much and loved it. DH also grew up in a big family without very much but he shares the same perspective as you.

My life aspiration was and is still to work a child psychiatrist, I'm a qualified doctor but the training and exams are intense. I also have a life aspiration to be a great mother but again a mother of 4 is intense. I guess you can't have it all and at some point compromises are to be made.

yeah it's a struggle. But then again, it would also be a struggle for me to feel that we are tied to a certain area, you can't really move with just your family without immediately losing 99% of the collective living benefits.

I live in an area where lots of people have moved back after having children to live near family who help with childcare. Those who don't have a parent staying at home or one parent has a part time flexible job or a nanny.

you have a small family unless you have the money for a big one really.

I'd love a second child but we can't afford 2 lots of nursery fees and our house is too small and unlikely to be able to move. I feel like it's just tough shit tbh that I can't afford a second child. I don't see it as something i'm entitled to.

Single, 2DDs aged 15 and 7. Work full time, also doing a part time Masters. I have no parents, no siblings, and don’t get me started on my ex.

No family other than an elderly Grandmother, who, fortunately, didn’t hesitate to (and had the financial means to) hire a cleaner, gardener, carers, moved to a bungalow in her 60s, made adaptations to it before they were truly needed, etc as soon as she needed them.

She allows me to take her food shopping twice a week, have her for dinner twice a week (one of which is all day on a Sunday), and I video call her every evening. I go to medical appointments when I can/when I’m needed.

She does not want me any more involved than that, having spent her life raising me/dealing with my arsehole father, whilst caring for her own mother, albeit she had far more money than I do, a husband and a sister who did her fair share.

Basically, it’s hard, expensive, exhausting and isolating.

I have great friends, but none of them are single parents, and they all work full time.

The biggest difference is that I see their DCs Grandparents doing wrap around care, school holiday care, taking their DGCs on holiday, babysitting at weekends/for the whole weekend. Helping with other general life stuff too, like DIY, extensions, car issues etc. They also have Aunts/Uncles to do that.

I have to have bomb proof, full time childcare, which means using a day nursery that does school runs/wrap around care, because the one time I used a childminder, I almost lost my job. A CM setting is much better for my quiet, introverted 7YO, not so good for job security.

I earn enough to have a cleaner for 4 hours a week, who also changes the bedding and takes it away to wash/dry/bring back the following week, and hangs up and clean, dry laundry that’s in the laundry room. Without her, I think I would have had a breakdown by now.

How do women juggle children, families, social life, housework, careers without the support of a collectivist society? It seems like an impossible task and a bit lonely at times. DH is great and gives more than he can in all aspects of my life but it's just too big a task for 2 people to manage.

You just get on with it. I raised my family and worked without parental support as they lived too far away. Yes it was tough but with a bit of organisation it's not impossible - clearly as many people do it!

You sound like an amazing woman! I bet you could organise my life in less than a day!

I have white British friends who sound a bit like your extended family. To me it seems a bit suffocating and possibly limiting as no one ever moves away? But obviously it's got benefits and is nice for the children.

We don't have that through circumstance and have 3 children so we just get on and pay for help as and when or ask friends. Being organised helps too. Neither of us have high powered MN careers so we just juggle things.

Can be a bit stressful at times but the independence to do what we want and when (ie not have family over for dinner or vv on set days) is nice. I grew up without close extended family so I'm used to it x

Ditto.
I'm a major planner! And luckily I earn enough to pay for some help when I need it.
The pandemic was hellish though as you can imagine.

Interesting question. When my Ds was in primary a school mum, who was Indian and Sikh invited a group of mums and kids over to her house. Her family lived close by and some in the same house. They all had lots of kids. All the women were sharing the cooking and helping with the kids. It seemed lovely. Very supportive. I think life is usually better when families live close to each other. On both sides of my family, people have moved to different parts of the country or emigrated abroad. I hate it. I think people are happier and better off living close. Luckily I live close to my sister and we both have kids. I truly hope my kids and hers live close to all of us when they grow up and are in each others lives.

In my small (mostly) white UK hometown life is pretty much the same as you describe - I'm from a big extended family - lots of cousins, lots of kids, all living close to each other. My sisters never used paid childcare (apart from free hours) - everyone mucked in to do a bit of school runs, pick ups, child minding, babysitting, driving to appointments. Children are given a bit more freedom & responsibility than they are here in London - so walking home on their own to an empty house from the age of ten, taking themselves and younger siblings out to play from the age of seven/eight.

I moved to London away from family and had to pay for these services but also I didn't have the emotional and mental load of relationship management - obviously some people take the piss with childcare and never reciprocate but you have to keep the peace and make sure all the kids are OK.

Also yes, it's very gendered. The men tend to have higher paying work (rural area so agriculture, engineering, building work) and contribute nothing to childcare. The women work lower paid shift work like caring, hairdressing, TA etc.

I think people are struggling more and more to live in the individualistic way. Kids moving out and being totally independent at 18-20 and then adults retiring at 65 and being totally independent (in terms of care and financially) until they are 90 sounds great on paper. But the distribution of wealth in many developed economies, with Britain being among the worst, is making this individualist society increasingly impossible. Energy is too expensive, food is too expensive, childcare is way too expensive, nowhere to rent and wages/pensions just aren’t keep up.

The pandemic was hellish though as you can imagine.

@CoQ10 Ah, the joy of home schooling 😀

Some point soon the younger generations across Western Europe/North America may have to accept that if they want THEIR kids to be able to afford have kids, they may have to forego the relaxing dream of a retirement spent painting and reading etc and instead be providing free child care/domestic support - which is of course already wgat the vast majority of the world does by necessity. I don’t think the economic good times are coming back any time soon, certainly not for middle to low income households.

White British family here married with 4 children eldest 13 youngest 4
Both families about 40 mins away but neither side are interested in helping and I can count on one hand the amounts of times they have looked after our children. Majority of times have been when I've given birth
We do see them fairly frequently but they don't want to babysit and have been open about that for years
We coped when children were younger by spending a lot on childcare
Now they are all at school we cope as I have remained part time so do have a day where I can get the house sorted out and catch up.
Since covid we are both pretty much wfh full time which has been life changing and allows us to do school runs with a bit of after school care for the younger two
Days I work a full day are crazy and busy but we still manage to eat dinner together, ensure homework is done and maintain hygiene and bedtime routines
It's to our own detriment. We don't get to sit down until late at night when everything's done and get up early. Just be organised. I imagine vast majority of households do the same, we're not alone
Time together is very limited as weekends are busy with clubs, sports, parties etc but it's all very normal and just life with kids? I know loads of families who have 2 children and both work full time and they are as busy as we are we just have an extra two...
We haven't been out together alone for so long but we make sure we have at least an hour every night together and we usually watch something we are into
I will increase my hours soon and know that I will need to be extra organised to do so. Have considered a cleaner but not sure how I feel about it. Think I'd rather do it myself to be honest!

We're white British, but my in-laws are wonderful and help us with our DC. I cook for them sometimes & my DH does jobs for them around the house, so they're very much part of our extended family network. We also have friends that we know we can call on if needed. I think a wider extended family unit sounds interesting but as a semi introvert, I'd struggle with the dynamics

I only had 3 so it was pretty easy. I think 4 would have been okay as well. Actually what made it easier was not having to spend loads of time with extended family. I'm so grateful we got to hang out as a nuclear family rather than dragging them round to family constantly. Three times a week would be my idea of hell. Instead we did swimming, footie, gymnastics, Library visits, museum visits, walks in the parks near and far, homework. I couldn't have fitted that in alongside family visits at that frequency.

I often reflected whilst at home with DC1 that this was not how parenting had traditionally been done - 1 woman entertaining one child all day by herself at home.

In the past the women of the family would have been together cooking or whatever, chatting, whilst the children played together.

I watched a film - I think it was called "Babies" - one of the babies they featured was part of a tribe that lived like this still. The children just played with whatever was to hand, sticks and things, nature, the children looked after and entertained one another, and they were less monitored by the mothers, who were busy with their jobs. I thought it looked companionable and pleasant, less stressful for everyone.

Modern western parenting is very intense!

I feel like you're describing any British family that lives near and has help from family? Minus the specifics of food of course.

I have 4 children, 8 and under. I have no help aside from my DH, but I am a SAHM. I find it ok, boring and isolated but ok on the whole.

I spend a lot of time just doing ‘stuff’, and I get very little time for myself. I do go to see a personal trainer but I always take children with me.

By way of example, I’d say in the last year, I think I’ve had one singular car journey on my own. It was 5 mins down the road to collect one of the children from an activity.

Children accompany me absolutely everywhere I go. Waxing, smears, opticians, everywhere.

I don’t get along especially well with my parents. Superficially ok, but I don’t want them spending really any periods of time alone with the children.

Children accompany me absolutely everywhere I go

This is why I didn't want another child. Because I know that until they go to school, so for four years, I would not have a childfree moment. I know mums at my DC school who have multiple kids and babies yet you always see them out and about by themselves as they have big families so always someone to leave their baby/toddler with.

This is not true in Europe. Many countries have higher pensions and at a younger age than us. And great childcare.

Everyone’s different. I wanted to feel freer when working so things like having a career that paid for flexible at home childcare was key. Things didn’t feel particularly harder for me than dh as we shared the load.

We did sometimes send the dc to gps for a couple of nights but that was about a decade ago, gps don’t have the energy now which is fine. They are getting too old.

Very interesting discussion!

DH and I are from abroad (white ethnic) so have no family here in the UK. Both career oriented. How we've managed:

• we chose to only have one DC, now a teen.
• we have a close network of friends, essentially our family, and when DC was younger especially, would ask for help with babysitting, overnight and weekend stays etc. We always reciprocated.
• paid childcare - nursery from 10 months and after school club at primary age
• paid help around the house.

We are both independent minded and, I believe, would not have coped with having either set of parents heavily involved in our daily life... even though we love them dearly! We are fortunate to be able to afford paid help, though.