2 child limit, why is nothing done about it? Do you agree?

[Hopeforchildren]

Hey guys, so it has been a fee years since the 2 child limit on tax credits. I know a few families with 3 children and started this thread for them. It seems quite odd that nothing has been done about it while most families have more than 2 children and are on low income. I mean not just single parents and non working parents, it’s a common struggle for all this including full time working couples or lone parents. What are your views on this subject. Shouldn’t there be a stop to it since its unfair on the child and even the previous children that has to go without? Before anyone attacking, please bear in mind that some people don’t agree with abortion or feel strongly connected with the baby to terminate the pregnancy. Looking forward to hearing your views. Please stay kind.

@Selene28 my point is that nobody is secure whether they can or cannot afford it.

So effectively dad can have 4 kids and claim tax credits (or more it's just 2 per mother) and mother can only claim for 2.

It's 2 per mother? Fathers can claim for multiple kids but mothers can only claim for 2

There's a whole generation of young adults now who have completely no hope of ever 'getting on the housing ladder' regardless of whether they have children or not. Maybe a 1 bed flat by their mid 40s, too late for most to conceive easily.

I suppose it all comes down to lifestyle choices.

@Scarsthelot

People on MN really like to ignore that critical illness/income insurance exists 👍🏻
It does exist btw and just like life insurance, if you can’t survive on the basic benefits available should ‘the worst’ happen, then it’s your responsibility to have insurance in place.

Home ownership isn't a pre requisite of successful parenthood. If your friends desperately want a child then unfortunately there are time constraints on fertility. Less so home ownership

Im not saying it it. However they are paying 1.5k rent & know if they want to keep working childcare will also be another 1k plus so don't feel they can give their dc a good quality of life. At some point they want their own home as a mortgage is cheaper however saving for that deposit is so much harder when paying childcare.

Exactly. Before TTC number 2 I made sure we had £X amount in savings. I called both mine and DH life insurance providers and increased our policies. I also took out an insurance that protected our income in the event that we because ill or incapacitated.

Like cases of oh’s running off with someone else after they’ve had 4 kids and won’t pay a penny in maintenance to the rp.

I personally think their should be a standardised payment a non-resident parent has to pay for each child, regardless of wage.
Say £150/month per child, taken out of anything over £500/month a non-resident parent earns. No arguments, no means testing, taken as a tax and redistributed to the resident parent like child benefit.

Might make some men think twice.

@Cuddling57 I completely disagree with certain people receiving ivf and some not, really sorry to hear that and it’s expensive I know because I had 4 work colleagues that had ivf done and 3 in different countries because they couldn’t afford it. It’s just unjust and humanity needs to restored. Some people would say well good that they can’t have kids because there are too many without even thinking you can afford for it.

As a family with 4 DC 8 fully support the 2 child limit, have more children if you can afford them. The state shouldn't be supporting large families, it's a luxury to have a large family and one that needs to be paid for by working not handouts

I also think that any maintenance received should be deducted from benefits.

This would only mean more woman and children staying in toxic,volatile, abusive situations.

It would also mean women and children in poverty at the whim of a man , if he pays,if he doesn't, works cash in hand,quits his job etc. Given how unsuccessful CSA is in making men pay or pursue them it would seriously fuck a lot of parents and children up.

@AlexanderHalexander i agree with that and we do have agencies that do that but it’s about finding them, that’s the problem. And yh they do run off and have kids from another and another because a man can afford to have as many as they like but women seem to suffer even if it’s only 2 they had

@TheHobbitMum seems the norm nowadays, having a large family if a sign of wealth. What do you see children as objects or something? Luxury seriously 😒

Non-payment of child maintenance is, according to the law, a criminal offence. The ultimate sanction for non payment is prison.

All that is needed is for the government - HMRC specifically - to enforce the law. This would have been a far better thing to do than bring in the two child rule which is misogynist shit and leads to a huge increase in child poverty.

£150 / month flat rate regardless of a NRP's income is an insulting suggestion. A lone parent spending such a tiny amount on her child would be prosecuted for child neglect.

I agree with the cap. People have known now, it's been in place for nearly 3 years. Contraception is free in this country. Don't give the time of day to a guy like 'Graeme' much less have sex with a someone like this unless you're prepared to accept that you'll be on your own if you conceive by a git like this. Take up with some 'DP' who's got kids already, realise you'll need to rely on yourselves to provide for more kids.

Multiples are already exempt. This policy will not be reversed because most people agree with it.

No one's saying don't have more, but don't expect additional UC. Don't see why that's such a huge human rights violation and this thread is goady AF.

I'm torn on this. I agree with if you cant afford a 3rd child then dont have one but I dont agree with taking it out on children.

People take the hard face "sick of scroungers" approach at the parents and think "well they're feckless adults so deal with it yourself" but ultimately it's still the child being raised in poverty who it will most effect.

If having no money stopped people having children then there would be no children in the much poorer countries, but there are. How society deals with them is what matters, and I might be alone in this but i would rather be in one that helps the poorer children of their country than turn my nose up at them because of their parents actions. That's before getting on to life changing events landing people in poverty. Some parents are feckless, some are unlucky, some are disadvantaged, still, it will be the child who will suffer the most.

Can you claim benefits for children if you don't know who the father is?

Should child maintenance come from N.I payments that goes towards the father's state pension?

It is a luxury to have a large family, they cost a lot of money! No one has said there is a limit on how many children anyone is allowed but the state shouldn't be footing the bill for those children.
If you want 3+ children then that is great, have them, just make sure first you can afford to feed and clothe them yourself

puddingbowlee 1.5K rent on a presumably smallish property? Is this in London by any chance?
I would suggest their choice of locality is making it difficult for them to afford to have a child.
We all have our choices and compromises to make, whether childless or a mother of six.

@pencilsinspace and how do explain to your children that you sent their father to prison for money? Especially taking into consideration that this will be enlightened in their teens.

Yes in London but they like myself were born here. Why should they move & leave the jobs they love? A mortgage on the same property would be at least 30% less than their rent.

We all have our choices and compromises to make

Exactly & they have decided to prioritise home ownership over having dc. I can understand their point of view, after all they are likely to not have a state pension & a free NHS once they reach 70. I think they are being sensible.

You say that your father broke the law. He was lawful arrested tried by a court and found guilty. We hope that after his sentence he will make better and more sensible lie choices.

What happens if one can’t afford any at anytime of their life? How about lgbt community where they want to have a child without a father but single.... do they go childless for the rest of their lives

and how do explain to your children that you sent their father to prison for money? Especially taking into consideration that this will be enlightened in their teens.

'You' wouldnt have sent him to prison. He went to prison because of a choice he made.

They make choices. We want a child. We have to do XYZ to get one. What sacrifices are we going to make to achieve this?

How about lgbt community where they want to have a child without a father but single....

Eh? What's LGBT got to do with it? Straight people can be single too