2 child limit, why is nothing done about it? Do you agree?

[Hopeforchildren]

Hey guys, so it has been a fee years since the 2 child limit on tax credits. I know a few families with 3 children and started this thread for them. It seems quite odd that nothing has been done about it while most families have more than 2 children and are on low income. I mean not just single parents and non working parents, it’s a common struggle for all this including full time working couples or lone parents. What are your views on this subject. Shouldn’t there be a stop to it since its unfair on the child and even the previous children that has to go without? Before anyone attacking, please bear in mind that some people don’t agree with abortion or feel strongly connected with the baby to terminate the pregnancy. Looking forward to hearing your views. Please stay kind.

People in the UK need to be having Children they can afford. There's no point boosting the population when those children are only seeing once decent meal a day that's being provided for by the school.

We are heading for a crisis where there will not be enough young people to sustain the economy and care for elderly people.

That will be immaterial if climate change has made the planet unviable to live on. Also, people who are relying on benefits to fund their families can't be said to be 'sustaining the economy'. Finally, the way the pension age is rising, people will be working till they drop dead and won't need to be funded by younger ones.

My friend has 12 children. They are both very successful. Both have their own businesses. Don’t rely on the state one bit

Someone posted that the kids shouldn’t have less due to birth order. But the law was clear. Don’t have more kids if you can’t afford them.

Whenever I read these threads, I'm always struck by the 'We had four kids when everything was fine but then my husband left' posts. Surely as part of your planning, you consider whether or not you are taking on too much, not now but potentially in the future? We are comfortably off, could afford quite a few children, but part of our reasoning and decision-making process for sticking with the DC we have is that we don't want to have more children than either of us could handle or afford solo, in case of anything happening in the future, be it us divorcing, one of us dying or becoming very unwell, etc. Even if the going is good now, you have to think about the future and other scenarios.

It beggars belief that women are sneered at for being financially dependent.

From the whole tone of your post I'm wondering if you have a typo and meant financially independant?

If you don't then I have to agree, I have one child, conceived to an officer in the army, with a wedding planned, and savings between us for a deposit. Fast forward 6 months and he's been kicked out for drugs and has blown his savings and has little hope of getting another job any time soon. I was in a good job, just been promoted and though the pregnancy wasn't planned, I worked it out and it was doable. That was of course until at 3 months pregnant he dropped out of life spectacularly - and this is someone I'd known all my life, we grew up round the corner from each other.
I wasn't about to subject the child to that behaviour, and didn't have enough for a deposit on a house, so I set up in rented and got on with it. He never paid, despite all sorts of trying. My job was unsociable hours and I couldn't afford the childcare needed for around the clock working as well as everything on my own, my career stalled. Hospitality is never a big earner but I was doing ok, but when I found my life smashed apart because of someone else's choices, I had to make tough choices of my own.
As I said earlier, my wages cover my outgoings and about 75% of my DDs before it runs out, the small amount of TC I get should be coming from him, not the state, but it doesn't, and I need the money to make ends meet every month. I've had a promotion in the last year to a slightly better role now DD is old enough to not need childcare, I'm back to working all hours and 50/60 hours a week again, but it's 16 years too late now. So I accepted my choices and did my damdest to meet my obligations. I've not had another one because I can't afford it, I agree that people shouldn't have children they can't afford - but short of a crystal ball, who knows that they're going to end up like that? Who knows when they make their commitment that it's only one sided? Granted some people do, but not as many who make it in good faith to be dropped in the shit, and then mocked by such as you on your moral high ground. I am as financially independent as possible, and working towards totally.

What beggars belief is that you have people saying on this thread that women are the problem here, when actually it's society that vilifies them for another person ducking out of their responsibility. Where there's a child, there's two parents, but don't people just love to have a go at single mums hey?!

Women have been sneered at on this thread for being financially dependant. In the absence of cold hard cash from her father, I had no choice.

He failed in his obligations, got away with having the debt written off, and giving nothing towards the result of a moment of madness - he knew the possible concequences of sex the same way I did.

Guess it's easier to have a bitch at people like me though because I actually care what becomes of my daughter, and am still hurt now that he treated her with so little regard. Easy target I guess.
Watch your high horse doesn't spook, it's a long fall!

You can't save for it but you can guard against it by not giving up your good career. If you felt you had to have five children, why didn't you split the bringing up part between you so you could continue your career?

Totally agree with this! So many women ‘give up great careers’ to raise children whilst their DP’s continue FT. Childcare costs are spoken about like they’re the sole responsibility of the woman ‘Childcare is more than my wage’- Then both drop to PT!!!

Relationship breaks down and those same women act like their DP has taken total advantage of them and they’re the innocent party.

They gave up their job willingly because A- they wanted to be at home with kids B- It ‘worked better for their family’. Either way the woman is 100% compliant in her situation and equally responsible if she’s left disadvantaged.

My DH actually doesn’t have the option to go PT currently (massively understaffed NHS role) we are due DS at Easter. I’ll drop to 3/5 but no less and we’ll be paying extra into my pension to compensate.

I also keep my own small savings which mean I have security (DH only has joint savings) giving up a FT career is a very big sacrifice and not one to be done without serious consideration.

PosiePie I meant financially independent.

No idea what you are saying in the rest of your post, though.

You remained Independent. You didnt have 3 or 4 kids knowing if the relationship failed, the state would only financially support 2.

Of course men need to step up. Mo o e has denied that. That doesnt mean the state is obliged to pay for 3 plus kids. Sorting CMS is a different but equally important issue.

I have never said I have issue with anyone claiming. I do have issue with women giving all their financial independence up to men and not thinking a out the consequences.

Even with CMS paid, you would still struggle if you have been out of work for years.

The state pays for 2. If you decide to have 3 plus, you should be fully aware that you only receive benefits for the first 2. If you choose to take that risk. That's your choice.

Not sure how any of my post is relevant to you. Since you remained working and had one child.

MyDCareMarvel Regarding having more DC, that depends on whether those DC, as they grow up, will be a benefit or a burden on society, doesn't it?

That, in turn, whether we like it or not, is dependent on whether they grow up in a well supported, stable, caring, adequately funded household- or not.

2 is plenty. Only have as many children as you can afford 🤷‍♀️ obviously things happen (twins, triplets etc) but I'd never have more children than I could comfortably afford!

I would have liked 3 but couldn't afford another one so made sure we didn't have a third.
It's the parents responsibility to make sure they have sufficient bedrooms, enough money for food etc.

Benefits should be a back up for if you fall on hard times - it shouldn't be an expectation that tax payers will continue to fund multiple children.
Blame the parents who willingly have a third or fourth for the lack of money. They should prioritise the children they already have.
From what I have seen families on benefits and those on high incomes seem to have larger families.
I would have loved to stay home when mine were tiny - but had to go back to work. I think there were some who had an extra child to avoid being forced to look for work - think it used to be when youngest started school.

But you can still get child benefit for as many children as you want

@MyDcAreMarvel people in the UK certainly should no be having more children. You can't just keep adding to the population in order to look after older people.

Overpopulation is one of the major contributors to climate change. Also it's ridiculous to say the UK is not overpopulated when there is not enough housing, the schools can't cope, the hospitals can't cope, GP's can't cope, transport can't cope and the roads are often almost at a standstill.

Having more and more people to look after older people is done sort of mental Ponzi scheme. There is only finite space

@missillusioned if you’re referring to my post at 2227 it was men I was referring to!

You don’t HAVE to have more dc with a new partner if you (plural) can’t afford to.

If a man wants to be with a woman with 2 dc from a previous relationship and have dc with her then he needs to ensure he can provide for that child.

If a man ALREADY has dc from a previous relationship he should have to consider them BEFORE having more dc which currently they don’t really have to do, indeed they’re allowed to reduce cm if they have more dc AND even if they move in with someone who already has dc - even though they are NOT legally financially responsible for those dc.

THAT is a disgrace!

Cm shouldn’t be reduced at all imo but certainly it should definitely not be reduced for the nrp acquiring stepchildren.

“The men who shirk their responsibilities need to be held to account and the cms system needs to get a spine!” Absolutely!

The scenario of a couple getting together who each has a child from previous relationships -

In terms of cms based on the assumption that as is usually the case both mothers are nrps then not only would they be able to claim benefits for what is actually a 3rd child as if they were a 2nd child, the father would also be able to reduce cm with both the step child and 3rd child counting for reductions in cm.

Wrong wrong wrong!

“But then many unmarried women don't want the father on the BC. You could force somebody into a claim while at the same time saying they can't be the legally recognised father.” Thankfully others disagree with you. Being on the BC is not required to claim cm, as unmarried fathers need to be present at time of registration many don’t bother to show too.

If they disputed paternity dna testing can be enforced.

“Don’t rely on the state one bit” rubbish! Everyone relies on the state to a degree even the royal family. Are you really trying to say they NEVER use the nhs, state education system, public roads etc? Come off it!

... Regarding having more DC, that depends on whether those DC, as they grow up, will be a benefit or a burden on society, doesn't it?
That, in turn, whether we like it or not, is dependent on whether they grow up in a well supported, stable, caring, adequately funded household- or not.

But you can't create a stable & caring home for children by just throwing money at it- it would be fantastic if that would be the fix it all solution to child poverty. Sadly it's not.
The real answer is education.

The real answer is education.

Not in its own it isn’t.

PosiePie, like your post, you're great and are setting a good example to your child. I hope things get better for you in the future, it must have been one helluva shock when the man baled on you.

People in the UK need to be having more children not less

The world is overpopulated. Why not encourage qualified immigrants to take care of the elderly?

Selene the The slight majority of British don’t want immigrants, that is the message that has been put across

As I said above you can get cb for as many dc as you want you don’t need loads of tax credits or whatever for each extra child.
If you’re planning a large family then you can reuse baby equipment, the cb buy nappies etc. Breastfeed (if you can/want to as it’s cheaper if not even formula can be cheap of you get from Aldi).

Tbh it’s not the baby years that are £££ it’s the teenage years so by then both parents will be back in work and it can be done without needing more money. It’s just a choice and it’s one that if you want to do it requires sacrifices and hard work hence why most sane people will stop at 2 or 3 but a larger family can be lovely it is just hard work but doesn’t have to be expensive if you’ve made that choice
Extra money for each child isn’t necessary but if you feel you need it there are other ways to budget or just work more

The world is overpopulated. Why not encourage qualified immigrants to take care of the elderly?

Just moves the problem further down the line. Cultural norms in most developing countries are to have more than two children. Those children will eventually be old enough to need all the care our current lot of elderly do. Building a bigger base for our population pyramid to support our currently top-heavy one will lead to unsustainable population growth and at some point we're going to need to face up to that. Better to feel the pinch now while the population isn't as large than to try and increase it year on year and pass the problem down the generations.

Exactly Claus. Head in hands when people chirp “we need more children to care for the elderly” where does that end?!? Everyone living in high rises and the cotswolds looking like Hong Kong that’s where

We have 3 and agreed to have the tc when offered in 1994.
It's better than working for nothing, or actually being worse off after work.
It runs out in 2 years, unless they stop it before then.
People only complain because they don't get it themselves, because they earn too much.

• The maximum you can earn with kids born after April 2017 is £25,000. For a single person aged 25 who works 30 hours or more, you can earn up to £14,000 and receive working tax credits. For a couple who are both aged 25 the maximum they can earn is £18,000*

Is that really earning too much?