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Mumsnet could do better (part trois)

1000 replies

EllaDisenchanted · 20/05/2024 07:20

Hello all, decompression thread 3️⃣

OP posts:
Thread gallery
95
EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 13:57

EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 13:42

I saw - fired from Rafah. Keep safe Tower

Along the coast mainly, towards Kfar Saba, Herzliya, Hod Hasharon, and Ra'anana. Probably aiming for Tel Aviv

OP posts:
SpuytenDuyvil · 26/05/2024 14:22

Stay safe, Ella, and tell your DC that we are always with them

EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 14:28

SpuytenDuyvil · 26/05/2024 14:22

Stay safe, Ella, and tell your DC that we are always with them

thanks Spuyten, all calm in my area though

thank you 🙏

OP posts:
EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 14:31

Towerofsong · 26/05/2024 13:18

There were rockets in central Israel today, no idea how Hamas actually has any rockets left but I guess their tunnels from Egypt are put to good use.

Ready to run to the shelter in the building's basement tonight, if it happens again.

I’m hearing reports they found rocket launchers right next to the border of Egypt 🤨🤨🤨
have you got a grab bag if you don’t have a safe room in the room you are in? Phone charger, charged power bank, water bottle and chocolate (for shock)
sorry if I’m preaching to the choir! Also the home front command app on your phone. It is sometime quicker than the siren

OP posts:
Towerofsong · 26/05/2024 14:39

EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 14:31

I’m hearing reports they found rocket launchers right next to the border of Egypt 🤨🤨🤨
have you got a grab bag if you don’t have a safe room in the room you are in? Phone charger, charged power bank, water bottle and chocolate (for shock)
sorry if I’m preaching to the choir! Also the home front command app on your phone. It is sometime quicker than the siren

I have the HF app although mine didn't sound. But I was with my DD and hers did. Have the red alert app too now, couldn't download that before from the UK.

Good idea about the grab bag

0palfruitsalad74 · 26/05/2024 14:52

Have just seen this on twitter. My dh's first words were also, how have they even got any rockets left??

It's unimaginable to me what it must be like to live with that level of threat on your doorstep. Stay safe, those of you who are anywhere near there ❤️

YesHesAPlonker · 26/05/2024 16:32

I hope this was a last gasp from Hamas @Towerofsong - and that those of you in Israel stay safe.

I'm not Jewish, but an ally, so have been lurking here. Feeling stupid for not having seen this coming once the Corbyn crowd emerged from the left and the identity politics crowd started pushing bds.

The level of ignorance of facts and history, coupled with the clear rage they feel is fucking terrifying. Talk about projection! I do know facts and history and I try to amplify those as much as I can on X and Instagram. How the hell did we get here?

Much love to all of you

79Helene · 26/05/2024 17:05

Stay safe @Towerofsong.

I love your username @YesHesAPlonker. And welcome!

gingergran · 26/05/2024 21:34

Rocket landed less than a mile from where we live. Thankfully landed in an open field but caused a massive crater. We’re sleeping in our flat’s bomb proof room tonight to be on the safe side.

EllaDisenchanted · 26/05/2024 21:46

gingergran · 26/05/2024 21:34

Rocket landed less than a mile from where we live. Thankfully landed in an open field but caused a massive crater. We’re sleeping in our flat’s bomb proof room tonight to be on the safe side.

😨😨that's nuts!

wait gingergran you are in Israel too??! 🇮🇱

OP posts:
DownNative · 27/05/2024 15:55

Predictable responses already that shows certain individuals are not able to debate or discuss the actual wording of the ICJ order.

Straight to misrepresenting what you said and Appeals To Emotion Fallacy too.

I also don't do kneejerk reactions to events in conflicts and wars. Too experienced in these things for that kind of thing.

quantumbutterfly · 27/05/2024 23:52

CITME, with a couple of exceptions the hypocrisy is just a waste of time and energy.
Please know that despite the noisy minority many people can have compassion for innocents from both sides of the conflict.

@EllaDisenchanted I admire you for your ability to make peace.

CloudyAgain · 28/05/2024 06:52

Thinking of those of you in Israel. Thanks

0palfruitsalad74 · 28/05/2024 08:11

quantumbutterfly · 27/05/2024 23:52

CITME, with a couple of exceptions the hypocrisy is just a waste of time and energy.
Please know that despite the noisy minority many people can have compassion for innocents from both sides of the conflict.

@EllaDisenchanted I admire you for your ability to make peace.

Yep. Made the mistake of looking at the thread about rockets fired into Israel, thinking I might find some balance there - the responses to the OP are a whisker away from supporting Hamas. The level of critical thinking and analysis is laughable. Unbelievable (except all too believable after the past few months).

DownNative · 28/05/2024 09:02

0palfruitsalad74 · 28/05/2024 08:11

Yep. Made the mistake of looking at the thread about rockets fired into Israel, thinking I might find some balance there - the responses to the OP are a whisker away from supporting Hamas. The level of critical thinking and analysis is laughable. Unbelievable (except all too believable after the past few months).

Exactly.

I posted the below in one of the threads (Palestinian marches in London should be stopped one), but it's relevant here:

"Vosoughi, Roy, and Aral (2018) found that false information spreads more rapidly on social media than true information, primarily due to its novelty and emotional impact.

Pariser (2011) introduced the concept of the “filter bubble”, where social media algorithms create personalised information environments that reinforce users’ existing beliefs.

Durupınar et al. (2016) provide insights into how psychological parameters can be used to simulate crowd behaviours from calm audiences to aggressive mobs. Applying these principles to social media crowds, emotional triggers in disinformation can transform passive groups into active disseminators of information. Use of charged imagery activates emotional responses that lead to more proactive sharing and defending of disinformation, mimicking the psychological shift from audience to mob."

That largely explains the mess in CITME board along with the Saviour Complex, Virtue Signalling Feel Good Factor, etc.

Mostly emotional posts with little analysis going on, especially from a security and counter-terrorism perspective.

The thread "The Road To Peace" is another I'll address certain things at some point in. Lots of naivety and false equivalences going on. If there's one thing anyone can take from the Northern Ireland peace process, it's that "When all is said and done, the Ulster problem is still only the Ulster problem."

It has very little, if any relevance, to other conflicts and certainly not to the Middle East problem.

The Propaganda of the Peace Process is a real phenomenon where Peace Process© has become a kind of political religious sacrament.

"Thou shalt not question the peace process just in case" is one manifestation of this.

quantumbutterfly · 28/05/2024 09:53

Good info. Thank you.
I noticed many of the really vociferous posters say they're in Ireland, feelings run high unsurprisingly, but I hope none of them are anywhere near a negotiating table, cool heads are needed.

My son was watching an interesting film yesterday, 'eye in the sky', I wonder how long ago that was programmed in to the schedule.

DownNative · 28/05/2024 10:55

quantumbutterfly · 28/05/2024 09:53

Good info. Thank you.
I noticed many of the really vociferous posters say they're in Ireland, feelings run high unsurprisingly, but I hope none of them are anywhere near a negotiating table, cool heads are needed.

My son was watching an interesting film yesterday, 'eye in the sky', I wonder how long ago that was programmed in to the schedule.

No problem!

Yes, I've noticed some of the most vociferous posters appear to be from the Republic of Ireland.

I myself am from Northern Ireland and have a very different set of experiences to them. It explains why I generally don't react in a hugely emotional way to various things. Indeed, i learned long ago that my emotional responses to certain things could give information to an opponent unintentionally which could lead to being killed. You see, Republicans view people like me as sub-human and worse than Protestants as I dont toe the Republican line which is expected of Catholics. Nationalists are not really like that as they largely oppose Provo Republicanism.

You can see some of them are now making emotional comments to me, but I remain focused and clear headed. Its a skill I developed over time as I argued against Provo Republicanism who are very good at pushing buttons. I've no doubt it winds them up that I don't react to it which leads to ad hominems, e.g. "condescending", "patronising", misrepresenting arguments, etc.

Hell, I've debated PIRA terrorists online as well. One blocked me last week for providing evidence he was wrong on something! 🤣

My advice is to know what it is you want to say, be clear about it, be aware of what logical fallacies are and keep them in mind to prevent yourself being dragged into an irrelevant argument or one that is designed to bury your point under emotional mudslinging.

Consistent practice will help you in this.

Oh, and take time out when needed. After all, this conflict is a marathon and your goal is NOT to change what posters think. No, your real goal is addressing those who read but don't post! It helps to remember that.

Doubt the conflict will be over in 2026, so no need to reply to everything. 👍

DownNative · 28/05/2024 12:46

Just spanked a UN media peace prize winner on another platform who said in response to my argument PIRA didn't have Hamas' weapons capabilities "I'm old enough to remember the IRA mortar attack on Heathrow".

To which I asked him if that was all he remembered before telling him that none of the 3 round total of 12 mortars PIRA fired actually exploded.

Hamas, on the other hand, has rockets that's far more dangerous than any mortrar PIRA fired.

The False Equivalences otherwise intelligent people are trying to draw is doing my head in. 🤦‍♂️

Just stop digging holes for yourself. It's weird! 🤣

EllaDisenchanted · 28/05/2024 17:12

quantumbutterfly · 27/05/2024 23:52

CITME, with a couple of exceptions the hypocrisy is just a waste of time and energy.
Please know that despite the noisy minority many people can have compassion for innocents from both sides of the conflict.

@EllaDisenchanted I admire you for your ability to make peace.

There are people caught up in this suffering, and my heart goes out to them. Regardless of where people stand politically, the people on my instagram and twitter pages (mainly Israelis) have predominantly expressed compassion and sadness today and yesterday for the tragic Palestinian deaths in Rafa.

I am hardly reading any of the threads any more, some of the comments do not invite any engagement, or opportunities for dialogue, by loudly condemning all Israelis/zionists- how can I engage with a poster who who sees all Israelis as a “rotten society”? We are people too, some good, some bad, like all people. It makes me sad, because it makes peace seem further and further away, if we can’t even talk 😟I wish with all my heart there would be peace, but it feels increasingly distant and impossible.

I know a relative of Vivian Silver , the peace activist, and reached out to her during the period of time she was missing, and they didn’t know if she was dead or captured and she sent me a clip of her son speaking about her. More and more every day it feels like the dreams of the peace seekers like Vivian have been murdered along with the dreamers. It feels intensely, unspeakably tragic.

OP posts:
EllaDisenchanted · 28/05/2024 17:20

DownNative · 28/05/2024 10:55

No problem!

Yes, I've noticed some of the most vociferous posters appear to be from the Republic of Ireland.

I myself am from Northern Ireland and have a very different set of experiences to them. It explains why I generally don't react in a hugely emotional way to various things. Indeed, i learned long ago that my emotional responses to certain things could give information to an opponent unintentionally which could lead to being killed. You see, Republicans view people like me as sub-human and worse than Protestants as I dont toe the Republican line which is expected of Catholics. Nationalists are not really like that as they largely oppose Provo Republicanism.

You can see some of them are now making emotional comments to me, but I remain focused and clear headed. Its a skill I developed over time as I argued against Provo Republicanism who are very good at pushing buttons. I've no doubt it winds them up that I don't react to it which leads to ad hominems, e.g. "condescending", "patronising", misrepresenting arguments, etc.

Hell, I've debated PIRA terrorists online as well. One blocked me last week for providing evidence he was wrong on something! 🤣

My advice is to know what it is you want to say, be clear about it, be aware of what logical fallacies are and keep them in mind to prevent yourself being dragged into an irrelevant argument or one that is designed to bury your point under emotional mudslinging.

Consistent practice will help you in this.

Oh, and take time out when needed. After all, this conflict is a marathon and your goal is NOT to change what posters think. No, your real goal is addressing those who read but don't post! It helps to remember that.

Doubt the conflict will be over in 2026, so no need to reply to everything. 👍

I’m very different to you, Down. I don’t really understand politics that well, I find it all vastly confusing, so I rarely comment on any of these threads. I record what I see, because it’s important to me, and try to be as accurate as I can, and I’ll always respond emotionally, because that’s who I am. I admire your understanding of all this, it’s all
mud to me! In my professional field, and about religion, I can talk intelligently (for hours if I can get away with it 😅) in politics, I feel like an idiot 🙈

OP posts:
EllaDisenchanted · 28/05/2024 17:24

EllaDisenchanted · 28/05/2024 17:12

There are people caught up in this suffering, and my heart goes out to them. Regardless of where people stand politically, the people on my instagram and twitter pages (mainly Israelis) have predominantly expressed compassion and sadness today and yesterday for the tragic Palestinian deaths in Rafa.

I am hardly reading any of the threads any more, some of the comments do not invite any engagement, or opportunities for dialogue, by loudly condemning all Israelis/zionists- how can I engage with a poster who who sees all Israelis as a “rotten society”? We are people too, some good, some bad, like all people. It makes me sad, because it makes peace seem further and further away, if we can’t even talk 😟I wish with all my heart there would be peace, but it feels increasingly distant and impossible.

I know a relative of Vivian Silver , the peace activist, and reached out to her during the period of time she was missing, and they didn’t know if she was dead or captured and she sent me a clip of her son speaking about her. More and more every day it feels like the dreams of the peace seekers like Vivian have been murdered along with the dreamers. It feels intensely, unspeakably tragic.

apologies for the long depressing essay, I should probably come off mumsnet for a bit tbh, but I’m not very good at staying away. Thank Gd for Shabbat, switch off for 25 hours every week!

OP posts:
keenforhelp · 28/05/2024 20:53

0palfruitsalad74 · 28/05/2024 08:11

Yep. Made the mistake of looking at the thread about rockets fired into Israel, thinking I might find some balance there - the responses to the OP are a whisker away from supporting Hamas. The level of critical thinking and analysis is laughable. Unbelievable (except all too believable after the past few months).

I am trying my best in there but no dice.

quantumbutterfly · 28/05/2024 21:16

@EllaDisenchanted You are so much stronger than me, this thread, this section should be a safe place for you. I hope you have family and friends around you irl. Take care.

quantumbutterfly · 28/05/2024 21:23

keenforhelp · 28/05/2024 20:53

I am trying my best in there but no dice.

As @DownNative says, there are many people who lurk and read, when they stand back and read I expect they see what we see but don't want to be targeted themselves.

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain what is happening there. DownNative's explanation upthread is a useful read.

Take care

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