IVF / ICSI January 2024

[VenusStarr]

Hi, is anyone due to start IVF / ICSI in January? We're going to do a 3 cycle package. I was hoping to start in December but hadn't realised Christmas closing would be so early! My clinic won't start fresh cycles after 30 November - my af is due any day now.

Got my protocol consultation next week, we've been doing lots of tests and my baseline scan. My husband was very sick earlier the year and we've now got MFI (low motility) and borderline sperm dna fragmentation. I've had recurrent miscarriages, combination of natural and ivf pregnancies, low amh, fibroids, adenomyosis... I've got immune issues so will be on extensive meds when we get to transfer. Trying to bank some embryos as this is our last go 🙏

Trying to see the wait as a positive to give us time to get the supplements in our system and eat well.

If anyone fancies joining me on the wait, please do 🙂

@VenusStarr hi!!
I could be starting at the end of this month or January, just depends if I can make the cut off date. So I can join you if you don't mind!!

Hi im not sure when I'm starting anymore. I'm hoping January and no later so will join you too.

About me:

Partner and myself 33 years old
No children
AMH was said to be low end of normal early last year at 17.4 and OH SA was low morphology first time tested and second test everything was borderline so have been advised of ICSI. Will be having short protocol however as I mentioned low moods recently they've now contacted my g.p and will review everything before starting my cycle 😩

Not the healthiest nor am I that active but yeah. First round on NHS.

Hi all, I’m back on the ivf bus come Jan so would like to join you for the chats. I’ve recently turned 40, DH is 35. We came to ivf two years ago due to MFI. No known issues re sperm or egg quality (bar the inevitable with age, OF COURSE!) MFI issues are re some v important tubes being missing.

We’ve done 5 cycles but the first 3 were a bit of mad science experiment unfort as id have 10-12 eggs a time but they just couldn’t get them to mature. This happens in 5% of cases apparently. They eventually cracked it (pardon the pun) and we got upwards of 9 mature on the 4th and 5th rounds so as horrified as I am to have to return for a dreaded 6th round I am seeing the progress we’ve made along the way. We’ve done 4 transfers in total of good quality embryos. We know one for sure was pgt, from 1st round, but stopped testing after that. 3 bfns in total and it was found after the 2nd one I need Clexane as I am borderline for sticky blood, so that was another lovely curve ball! 4th transfer was recent and BFP but sadly it stopped developing at the 8week mark having previously established a heartbeat. Had a D&C under general last Friday.
@VenusStarr given our own “journey” Im really feeling your story of woe, what a huge amount you’ve been through. I too am using this time to get back on the supplements and obvs having been so recently pregnant I’ve been alcohol free and clean living. I’ve also been on immune support - steroids - which are anti inflammatory. Still tapering down now, the moon face is real!

Hi @ThesisthenaViva when do you think af might arrive? Is this your first time doing ivf?

Welcome @Sherr33 I'm sorry yoivegot a bit of a delay, fingers crossed the GP will give you the all clear... surely its a bit of a given that we'll have struggles with our mood and emotions.

Hi @Eggbert83 I am so sorry for your loss ❤️ I had surgery with my last pregnancy, I hope you're recovering OK. I'm 40and dh is 41, we started ttc when I was 34.
Have you had the baby tested? 2 of my losses were chromosomally healthy and my miscarriage specialist doesn't think that's our issue. We can't afford pgta testing and I don't think we'll get many embryos anyway so would just like to give anything a chance.
Moon face is very real! Took ages for mine to go. I've been on hydroxychloroquine and intralipids as well as prednisolone. Got a new drug called gcsf to take next time. I also have clexane but no identified clotting issues.
Do you know what protocol you will do? I'm waiting for my amh result, my afc was 8 which is the same as my nhs ivf cycle when my amh was 5. If its the same, I'll do mild ivf but if my amh is low, it'll be natural modified.

Xx

@VenusStarr Thank you. It’s been tough but we are really taking heart that we were able to get pregnant and I was told that all looked good in terms of positioning, yolk and gestational sack etc. I was first scanned at 6+5 and embryo was tiny and behind dates and heartbeat was not detected so we were told to prepare ourselves. Then a week later it had a heartbeat but it was a little slow and the embryo had only grown a mm so was quite significantly behind in terms of size. We were scanned again a few days later and it had stalled at that point and heartbeat was gone. I’ve been told that this would all indicate it was an issue with the embryo but couldn’t test it as our nhs trust only do that on on the third loss, and it wasn’t available to us privately. I am now tempted to pgt test any further embryos but at the same time am super keen to go again so a fresh transfer in Jan appeals. I did not realise that after a loss you really crave being pregnant again, it feels so primal, it’s all I can think about. Finally seeing those two lines was absolutely magical.

I really hope it works out for your next attempt. Sounds like you have a good record of producing viable embryos which is a huge part of the battle. People do say mild and natural is great in terms of quality. I don’t think we’ll do it as we have to do icsi from retrieved sperm so there’s a greater chance an immature sperm will be used so we need as many eggs as possible to allow for that margin of error. We’ll stick to the protocol from last egg collection, although that was a year ago. It was a mixture of menopur and gonal f but the magic with mine is what they give me at trigger time, and the timing. I haven’t had amh retested as clinic don’t feel it’s necessary and it may cause more anxiety if it’s gone down. AFC still seems to be 10-12 so hoping that holds out. My DH had a second sperm retrieval in Sept after following a nutritionists advice and supplement regime. There’s nothing to indicate there’s sperm issues (apart from them being unable to reach me via sex!!!!) but we figure that if his sperm can be the best they can be it may help my eggs out. I really hope this new batch is good!! 2024 for the win for us all!

@VenusStarr it should arrive between the 24th-28th. Who knows! I have a feeling that now I want it to arrive it won't arrive on time and that will force us to have to wait until January. This is our first time- not sure how I feel. It's getting more real by the day. Our nurse consultation is scheduled for tomorrow. I'm sorry to hear about your losses- life is so unfair at times. Praying that you, @Eggbert83, @Sherr33 and myself get what we desire this year.

@Sherr33 hi there! I hope you get to start in January (new year and all!). We also have low morphology- one clinic told us ICSI is a must and current clinic is saying we don't need it unless it is super low on the day. It's a first round for us too. How are feeling about it all? New terriority isn't it and it's bloody hard to take it all in.

@Eggbert83 I am so sorry for your loss. Sounds like you've been through a lot. Hoping 2024 is the year!!

@ThesisthenaViva Thank you.

just wondering if you heard of Emma the Embryologist on instragram? She has done some posts about icsi and is the opinion clinics don’t use it as much as they should, so you might want to check it out in case you then want to challenge your clinic. I think ivf has the advantage of allowing the strongest sperm to seize the egg whereas icsi relies on a human to pick the best sperm and they cannot always be sure it’s mature, and an immature sperm cannot fertilise an egg. Also the egg can get damaged by having a spent injected in. But it also has its advantages for sure x

@ThesisthenaViva Its a rollercoaster for sure. More so when you've been feeling like you're on the journey alone as opposed to having your partner more involved. I mean I can now speak to him about certain things but its been hard. And sometimes hard for them to understand your fears. I think it may be for the best I start in the new year. My consultant said ICSI because his last test everything was borderline and they don't want to leave it to just ivf where the sperm and egg meet naturally -well as naturally as possible in a lab 🤣 i find that so cute hahah. My eggs probably know better than me and may just turn their nose up and prevent it from getting the job done. The nurses appointment is that you signing all the legal paperwork?

@Eggbert83 thank you for mentioning I may just look at what she has to say.

@Sherr33 Oh good, sorry I did tag you in that message too but for some reason it didn’t stick, so am glad you have seen it. Embryomanofficial is also another good one on instagram, but I prefer Emma the Embryologist as she is uk based xx

A quick question are any of you going to opt for the ad ons? I'm going to be with Care Fertility and ive actually been thinking about going ahead with some. Would love to know your thoughts and personal experience/preference on this.

@Sherr33 The add on’s we’ve previously done are pgt and we may well do that again this round due to age, miscarriage and therefore higher chance of aneuploid embryos. We’ve also done ERA/ALICE/EMMA test to check receptivity, but you only do that if you’ve had a few implantation failures. Didn’t find anything but glad we did it, it was right for our circumstances. My clinic does embryoglue as standard.

There is some research to support assisted hatching and if you are doing ICSI anyway I think pICSI or IMSI can be helpful as additional selection tools, esp for anyone not likely to have many eggs.

What ones you thinking of doing?

@Eggbert83 So I was actually thinking Embryo glue as it is an ad on for us with care. And the below mentioned two treatments:

EmbryoGen and BlastGen are culture mediums used for culturing embryos in the lab. EmbryoGen and BlastGen solutions are a type of culture media, which are liquids designed to closely mimic the natural surroundings of an embryo. This can help embryos to grow better and make a successful embryo transfer and implantation more likely.

ZyMõt has been designed to mimic the body’s natural mode of sperm selection. ZyMõt is a device, also called a chip, which can be used in the IVF laboratory to prepare and select sperm for (ICSI). ZyMōt ‘microfluidic’ sperm preparation is designed to select motile sperm with the lowest levels of DNA fragmentation compared to conventional sperm preparation techniques.

Im not sure whether they'd do all three as it seems they all need specific cultures for specific reasons and doing all three just doesn't seem feasible? I'd have to discuss with them but have you heard of Zymot or EmbryoGen?

I’m most likely going to go again in Jan. I’ve had one failed icsi and a couple of failed iuis. Not looking forward to doing it all again but may as well get it out of the way early in the new year and hope it works! ♥️

@Eggbert83 thanks for added info- you seem to know an awful lot so thank you for sharing.
@Sherr33 there are so many add-ons. We are opting for PGTA testing. No idea why it is soooo expensive.
@Blossomofhope hey there!!

Just found out today that I can start tomorrow otherwise it will be end of Dec due to Xmas holidays. Should I start??

@ThesisthenaViva how do you feel about starting now? Is it the long or short protocol that you're doing? Sorry cant remember if you've said

@Sherr33 I'm on the short protocol. I'm feeling a bit meh about it. I think we're going to go ahead.

@ThesisthenaViva we are going to be on short too when we do start. Keep us updated. And just take each step as it comes. You've got this!

Hey everyone! Wondering if I can join? I’m due to start medication for a FET in December and likely my transfer will be end of january! Right now wishing time away but I’m sure Christmas/new year will hopefully come around fast! 💃 wish everyone luck who is starting cycles soon!

Welcome @Ellenn
Is this your first time? At least you have a chance to really enjoy Christmas and have something to look forward to in the new year.

Hi everyone. Sorry for starting the thread and then not returning!

@Eggbert83 it's so hard ❤️ my first couple of pregnancies measured behind but stopped growing in week 6. My 4th pregnancy was on track (was tacking progesterone) but no heartbeat at 5mm, growth stopped in week 6. That baby was tested healthy. My 6th pregnancy was 2 days behind. But had a heartbeat but stopped growing in week 6 again healthy baby again. So a definite pattern. I do have diagnosed immune issues but my last 2 pregnancies were on full immune protocols.
I think you have to make decisions based on what you know and how you would feel if things went wrong, would you regret not trying - so if you think not testing embryos is something you'd wish you'd done, if that makes sense.
I hope you're recovering OK.

Good luck this cycle @ThesisthenaViva I actually find the ivf process less stressful in some ways because the clinic tell you what to do and when, so I think it's OK to feel a bit meh about it all, it will have no impact on the outcome ❤️

Welcome @Ellenn glad you have a timeline 🙂

Hi @Blossomofhope we'll be cycling at the same time

@Sherr33 I'm doing immunes for transfer, which I guess is considered an add on but I do have diagnosed issues. It's all a bit of a minefield really. What add ons are you thinking?

Got my protocol consultation today, so I'll get my amh results, feel sick. Got a list of questions. Got to do it on my lunch break in the car, hoping dh can join in too but might be on my own. Hoping I'll feel better once I know the plan. I'm cd4 today so have definitely missed the clinic Christmas cut off, January does feel like a long time away.

Does anyone have any tips for sleep, mine is awful at the moment. I know melatonin is recommended in it starts with the egg but it can interfere with ovulation and I don't want my cycle to go off kilter and delay more. But I'm averaging 4 hours at the moment and I'm worrying about my eggs!

I'll post later about my results / plan x

Hey @VenusStarr
So I was thinking if the ad ons i mentioned in my previous post. I'm not sure..have you heard of them? The immune protocol what tests did you have to do first? I have an auto immune issue but nobody has bothered for extra tests etc? Or mentioned them :-/

I hope your appointment goes well today

@ThesisthenaViva how are you doing?

@VenusStarr I’m so so sorry for your losses, thank you for sharing your story. I am keeping everything crossed for you today. It’s very hard to dig deep and find the strength repeatedly. Wishing you the great big amh that you deserve.

For sleep, I’m a big fan of nytol, and it’s just a strong anti histamine so should not do any harm. Magnesium is also good, and it’s just great all round for health. I take magnesium citrate but switching to glycinate which is supposed to be even better.

I am recovering well, thank you, but now have a cold or sinus thing. Prob just the time of year it is and the last of the prednisolone leaving my system.

@Sherr33 I think out of those the sperm one would be worth looking into, but I don’t know why clinics are offering upgrades when it comes to the culturing of embryos. I feel like that’s such a corner stone of their job - to get your embies to blasts - so I’d want to know what their default culture medium is and whether they have strong confidence in that (as they definitely should!) It feels a bit like paying to ride the bus and then having to pay them extra to put on the tyres, if I’m honest!

@ThesisthenaViva unfortunately not! This will be my fourth embryo transfer, my last three transfers all resulted in miscarriage 😢 so I’m really hoping for a different outcome this time 🤞