ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

@2021ivfagain it is totally normal to worry about all the things you did and didn't do but it's nothing to do with anything you did or didn't do. Being dehydrated did not cause this to happen.

Yes I had 2 euploid embryos. The first ended in a chemical (very minor chemical - barely positive). The second was successful. So euploids don't guarantee anything no.

Today is just for being kind to yourself. I found the Miscarriage Association Facebook page was a great source of support when I was going through this. I also called their helpline and chatted to their support team - it's just someone kind who listens but I found it a good source of support x

@Gardenlady543 Thanks. What do you mean testing the products?

@2021ivfagain if the embryo wasn't tested they can test the products to see if it's euploid or not. Some people find this helpful as it can give answers if aneuploid. The helpline @Janefx40 mentions sounds good, when my beloved dog passed I called a pet bereavement line and found it really helpful in the initial stages of grief to speak to someone who understood.

@2021ivfagain depending on your chosen management method and whether you’re willing or able to collect some of the tissues, you can have that tested for genetic abnormalities, they call them ‘products of conception’ (really not my favourite term). I had that done with MC2 and 3 as I chose surgical management so it was straightforward for them to collect the tissues and send off, plus I was able to have this on the NHS as I’d had 3 losses by that point (NHS won’t do it before). It was upsetting to learn both embryos had genetic abnormalities, but gave me peace of mind that it definitely wasn’t something I did or didn’t as just like you I was torturing myself, those embryos would have never survived, which is shocking and sad, but makes you realise it really isn’t on you in any way.

My FET was also with a tested euploid embryo and still resulted into a chemical, so another loss, when the whole reason to invest in PGT was to prevent another loss when I already had 4 so you’re right there, it’s still not guaranteed, but should reduce risk somewhat xxx

@Gardenlady543 I’m considering medical management as I don’t want the surgery. It’s all very scary. The issue is if I found out that it was normal after all I will be more upset as normals might not survive.

@clhiu Thanks. The issue is I can’t afford to do PGS plus another potential transfer. Also, they were frozen at day 3, then frozen at day 5. If they were thawed, tested, then refrozen and rethawed again, it might reduce success anyway.

@2021ivfagain totally and I completely get it, especially since my direct experience left me rather disillusioned with it so I don’t blame you at all for being skeptical about that. Plus one of my 5 tested inconclusive, twice! Meaning it was thawed, biopsised and re-frozen twice which probably caused too much damage, even if it was normal to think it will never stand a decent chance to transfer succesfully. It’s a really tough decision, especially when there’s also costs involved.
I also appreciate that if you were to find out it was normal after testing, you may still blame yourself, but even then, it won’t be something you have done, it’ll be there may be other factors at play you have not yet explored such as immune issues.
Only you can decide what feels like the best management option, the miscarriage association website gives a very through explanation of all options with pros and cons, I opted for surgical as I just wanted it all to be over as soon as possible and wanted to ensure products would be collected and sent for testing, but it’s a completely personal decision. Have you contacted your local EPU? They should also guide you through the options so you can make a fully informed decision, but it’s really not a good place to be, having to take such a big decision when you’re dealing with the immense grief already.

@2021ivfagain I’m so sorry. There isn’t any words because it’s just an awful thing to go through. I also found Sands charity helpful and Tommys. Maybe within time it’s someone to speak to. Also I’ve been there blaming myself when we lost at 19 weeks. I even checked the back of the tea bags to make sure they were decaf!!!! We’ve all felt the self blame but it’s 100% nothing you have done to cause it. Sending hugs.

@Loz2467 Thank you for your kind message. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I’m struggling because I can’t try naturally. We have 5 day 5 blastocysts left frozen and they are untested. It was when I was 40. It was my best ever egg retrieval in terms of blastocyst rate: I had 7 day 5 blastocysts from 7 day 3 embryos.

I just keep thinking that my baby must have stopped developing the day before my scan when my symptoms started to improve. I had really bad nausea at times and found it difficult to drink water in the morning so had porridge with lots of milk, but then waited sometimes 4 hours to drink more at lunch. I was gagging a lot. So I worry that I might have been dehydrated at times. I did try to drink more during the day/evening and then had to wake up in the night to wee more.

@clhiu I have received a letter from CRGH to take to EPU. I’m leaning towards taking medication as I have been told the procedure can affect future IVF. I know my chances are very slim now but not ready yet to completely give up hope. I don’t have much hope left.

Does anyone have any doxy I can buy off them at all? I’m sure I had some left but I can’t find them anywhere 😫 I just wanted to take 3 on lead up on transfer. Is that what you did @Gardenlady543 x

@2021ivfagain if it's d and c some people can get adhesions and scarring from it, I think medical can be drawn out a bit, I am sure EPU will talk through both options to help you come to a decision. Thinking of you ❤️

@Loz2467 you can get them from here and pick the faster delivery, how far off a transfer are you, I started 2 days before and did 3 days. www.doctorfox.co.uk/anti-malaria-tablets/doxycycline.html

@2021ivfagain of course you’re very far from having to give up hope with 5 more blasts on ice, I can totally get that and wouldn’t in your place.

And yes you’re absolutely correct, like any other surgery, ERPCs carry a small risk of infection and scarring, which could then be detrimental to further implantations, whether natural or IVF so your concerns are completely valid. I was lucky that wasn’t the case for me, but it’s a risk you’d take were you to go down that route. Medical can sometimes fail to clear everything and sometimes surgery could still be required afterwards so something else to bear in mind, but you’ll be explained all of this.

I’m really sorry again you’re finding yourself in this predicament in the first place, nobody ever should ❤️ xxx

I'm sorry you're going through this @2021ivfagain ❤️ I've had 4 natural losses. With my 4th pregnancy, I did medical management and collected the pregnancy tissue for testing and we got results. It is very traumatic though, particularly as it happened in the evening and we had to preserve him overnight. I did have retained tissue though but my GP prescribed antibiotics which cleared it within a week. My last pregnancy loss I had surgery and we tested that baby. We stopped ivf and ttc for 6 months to wait for the results (no chromosomal issues) and then when we were ready to restart, my ivf doctor thought I had scarring. So I needed a hysteroscopy. Which was clear but then I had lining issues which meant 3 cancelled FETs. I have no idea if that was surgery related though.

I completely understand the worry about finding out the baby may have been healthy - both of the babies we tested were healthy and its completely heartbreaking. Sending you love xx

@Gardenlady543 thank you! I’m some time away yet. I’ve got my down Reg scan tomorrow. I have just taken doxy a couple of weeks ago along with oral probiotics and then just finishing the vaginal ones now. I don’t want to get rid of all the good bacteria as I was on antibiotics in July too for my infected stitches from the lap. Shall I add the 3 days around transfer? It does seem quite common in endo and adeno patients but I don’t wanna overload too much? I’m already abit worried about microbiome: the dr in London said doxy and metdrizole (sorry can’t spell it) but I didn’t do both because of the ones in July too. X

@Loz2467 I would order from that site then, it's for malaria prophylaxis but it's the same stuff. In USA they use it a lot in transfers, but not so much here in the Uk. I looked up the regimes people are on and the shortest course is 100mg twice a day, starting 2 days before transfer and ending on transfer day evening, so 6 doses total. Some people are on it for much longer, some take it for 2 weeks. I just wanted enough to have some prophylactic effect and also some people say it helps with implantation.

@Gardenlady543 @clhiu I was told medicated would move things along quicker. I want to avoid d&c as I can’t afford to get scarring issues on top of everything else. From what I have read though, miscarriages can cause scarring anyway. I don’t know. It’s so hard as I’m still feeling sick; I have been feeling nauseous all day. It’s not quite as bad but still there.

@Gardenlady543 Is there any medication I can take for nausea?

I had a counselling session this morning which helped a bit. I still have 5 day 5 blastocysts left. I wish I could’ve PGS tested them but it’s too late now as they have been frozen at day 3, then thawed 2 years later and grown to blastocyst stage. Then refrozen. If I had testing as well, that would mean an extra freezing and thawing added.

@2021ivfagain can you get to the GP to have a antisickness prescribed? I use root ginger but I mean if you're going to vomit you need an antisickness really, the home remedies don't really do much. I think as long as you're prepared for the medical management it's fine to choose that. I think if I had to pick this would be my preference as I needed surgery for cervical adhesions previously, so I may be prone to them. Can your counsellor support you around it?

I think you're right that the embryos are best to be transferred untested since they have already had a thaw. There is no rush for FETs you can take your time. It took me from 2020 to this year to transfer 6.

Evening ladies. I’m currently 7dpo in my second SO cycle, OTD is Wednesday.
For the past couple of days I had quite a sharp pain to the lower right side of my belly button, it feels more like a stitch than cramping or any other leutal phase pain I experienced before. In fact it almost feels like it’s more in my muscle, but seems completely unrelated to how I move or sit. It’s not there all the time, but comes and goes and earlier whilst I was stood around the kitchen making dinner it almost stopped me in my tracks a couple of times. I’m now freaking out about a possible ectopic, I have no other symptoms associated with ectopic at this stage, but then it’s almost likely too early for that. I feel completely fine aside from this.
I had a similar pain with my 2nd pregnancy that ended in very early MC, but I feel this time is more intense and persistent.
Does anyone on here have experience of similar pain and was not ectopic (either BNF or pregnancy implanted in the right place) and do you know what else could it be please? Thank you x

@clhiu 7dpo is typical implantation time there is not a reason for an ectopic to cause pain this early on. It could be normal implantation or could be something completely unrelated, bowel gas etc. I did get some sharp twinges in the two week wait and after, usually around the ovaries and things were in the right place.

Thank you so much @Gardenlady543, always something new to worry about.

@Gardenlady543 thank you! Do you think it’s worth me taking even though I’ve had it the last couple of weeks?

Also if I’m starting my estrogen tomorrow shall I do my last vaginal probiotic this evening?

@Gardenlady543 what was your pred dose again? Because I haven’t been tested for NK cells I thought I was meant to just do it around Transfer at a higher dose? We are using it as a precaution because of my adeno.

Today at my scan I was down regulated but the adeno only shows after I start my estrogen: I didn’t ask too many questions because I didn’t want to start getting all the negative feels! It was 3mm or less. I’ve had two hysterscopy now saying it isn’t in the cavity.

@Loz2467 yeah it's only 6 doses I do metronidazole in the cycle before and still take it. I take daily vaginal probiotics in my FET cycle. Pred dose was 25mg starting cd8 and weaned off at 12 weeks.

@Gardenlady543 thanks so much! And it doesn’t matter it was only 10 days ago I took the doxy? And then the others in June too. Sorry for asking so many questions just worried it’s too much. Did you have NK cells tested and that’s why they said 25mg?

@Loz2467 I had a lot of immune testing the only issues found were a complete hla dqa1 match and slightly high nk cells in the blood. So I did LIT and took prednisolone, hydroxychloroquine, low dose naltrexone, Inhixa and intralipids in the cycle. By the time you take the doxy it would have been the same gap as me taking it pre transfer compared to when I took the metronidazole. Prednisolone dose was calculated by my weight it was either going to be 20 or 25mg.