ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

@Enfys23 just to note, my create clinic is 'open' Monday-Friday and Saturday-am but during treatment they'll do egg collections and transfers over the weekend / Sundays. They're flexible with scans etc and start clinic at 7am so you can go before work. But definitely worth checking if you need that flexibility. They didn't trigger me to fit their availability and we weren't working towards a collection date or transfer date, it all depended on my response to meds and my bloods x

@CailinInUK sorry to hear about your fertilisation issues, that's so frustrating when in this age bracket. I have the same fear that the next cycle could be bad (like our second was), there's so few guarantees in all this. I'm the same, not living properly, really. My brain races ahead so I'm sat around thinking of ways to delay accepting an offer and stuff, hate my brain!

@Gardenlady543 how did your biopsies go, were they ok? I had one in 2011, then a large, benign fibroadenoma removed. I'm hoping it's just the scar tissue from that op she can feel.

I'm genuinely in a right mess about jobs. So I chose not to apply for one job, but did apply for another which would also have good mat pay if you got pregnant after 3 months of service, that's the one I have the interview for next week. In my current role it's 5 months full mat pay, which is a lot to lose. Then another job came up in my team, it would 3 days per week (and my current job 2 days). It would be a pay uplift and still doing an easy job two days, with good flexibility. I think I will apply this weekend, but I'm quite concerned they'll give out to the beloved, "networking" man in my team if he applies, which would be very frustrating and I might want to leave.

I'm just a big confused mess. It would be healthy for me to move after nearly 5 years, but the ivf is a big shadow over everything and I am terrified of getting into a situation at a new place where I have to take time off early on, they aren't happy about it and so on. It should be a supportive employer, but hard to say what any manager might be like.

@VenusStarr glad to hear your DH is a bit better. I hear you on all those threads you've been left on. I just feel numb tbh when people post their successes because it just doesn't make sense how it doesn't work for a very small number of us, but does for everyone else. And yes, the same people are now making new 35 + threads about having a second! Lol, I remember being on one of those when I was a few years younger and it's crazy how naive I was. It's been 4 years for us. We're in the final run, yeah. I think, realistically, one more year and then done, by the time we transfer, fail, retrieve, transfer, fail, take a break etc etc. I get annoyed with people asking me if I'm going to adopt. I don't want to, I wanted us to have our own little family, partly because I don't have much of a family of my own.

@Dochas12111 Good luck with your second! Can I ask, were you in a good or boring job etc? Mine is average pay, boring, but I only took it for the overall package and it's been nearly 5 years. I guess, if I have 1 to 1.5 more years of ivf I could cope that long before maybe taking a break and then going back out there. I posted up there how there's another part time role in my tea that's come up, but I'm not convinced I'll get it.

My history is I'm now 40, DH 42 and we started trying in 2019, lost lots of time to being told everything was fine with us because he had plenty of sperm when it really was not. Fast forward a couple of years and we'd tried superovulation/timed conception, had more tests (AMH 36 at the start, probably lower now!) and found my progesterone was low (don't know why?) and DH's motility and vitality was atrocious (didn't know why), DNA frag is good. Started IVF with NHS, which I regret waiting for now, then went on to Lister IVF:

Feb 2022, Round 1 (NHS) - 15 eggs collected, 13 mature, 9 fertilised and 4 embryos - 4AA BFN, 4AB BFN, 4BB Chemical, 5AC didn't survive thaw

November 2022 - Round 2 (Lister) - 10 eggs collected, 5 fertilised, none made it day 5. Had a day 3 double transfer of the only viable embryos we had, and they were not in a good way. BFN, predictably.

Fewer eggs collected but the clinic pointed at the sperm as the issue here. Realised after this round that DH had had a fever (wisdom tooth removed) the month before and we didn't realise the effect it would have. We then had DH have a SA before starting again and the embryologist informed us he had 100% antiserum antibodies so that would explain why we can't conceive naturally.

April 2023 - Round 3 - increased dose this time, 14 eggs collected, 10 were mature and 9 fertilised normally. All 9 still in play in day 5, ended up with 5 embryos and PGT-A tested 3 of them - 5AA untested BFN, 2 x 4BB abnormal, 4AB euploid will be transferred next month, and 5AC untested and in storage because they didn't think it would survive the test, so might not survive thaw either.

So six embryos have failed so far, but I'm never sure if numbers 4 and 5 were ever going to have a chance, really. The only implantation I had was when I self-medicated with prednisolone on transfer 3, so I'll finally be taking a prescribed low dose of it for transfer 7. Doc didn't want to give it to me because my NK cells were ok.

I'm also worried about the cancer risk from all the meds, although I have not used any oestrogen during all this, been doing natural modified transfers. I don't want to do any more collections but will probably do 1-2 more before I quit.

I feel rusty around all this, might buy some metronidazole and then take probiotics for a few weeks. not sure what to do really. I did it once before for round 2, but not since.

My platelets have been high on every test I've had the last few years. Is that a clotting thing @Gardenlady543? My fertility doctor didn't seem concerned, I'm on Clexane during treatments as it is.

@Janefx40 the new people, new things generally will stress me out, I struggle with change on a good day.

@Enfys23 sorry to hear your test outcome, our sixth failed too, it's hard to believe any embryo will work. Give yourself some time to grieve and recover. Access package was fine for us, but may end up batching next time so might not do it again. I've also considered Create, it seems good value.

@Sar1010 I'm a bit concerned by silent endo and don't know what to do really, can't afford a lap as well as IVF and won't get an NHS one this far on. I have thought about going to that doctor that scans for endo in london. I started getting pain in my very upper thigh the last couple of months for a day or so and all I can find when I google is could be endo and some people said start of perimenopause, which would also make sense given I'm 40 now. Not that I'm coping well with that idea. No one has ever said I have any endo signs or things showing up on scans though.

*antiSPERM, not serum lol
**4AA euploid transferring next month, 5CC in storage - I'm getting my many failed embryos mixed up :/

@thislittlebird
Have you had hycosy or HSG done? I would recommend Bill Smiths to confirm the Endo but its a big cost £325 per scan and I did 3 in a monitored cycle with him. He has now suggested a hycosy and then potentially a lap. So transfers and collections are on hold for me, until I get to the bottom of the endo.
Frustrating but I do think we are on the right path. Perhaps NHS would look at the endo for you? But again if it isnt affecting you too much you might have to big up your problems a little bit to get seen.

4AA sounds v promising for next month! I would def get on the probiotics now in prep for that.

@Sar1010 I had a hycosy and that was all fine. Have they found any signs of it for you?

NHS should have referred me in 2019/2020 but they were thoroughly uninterested tbh. Gynaecologist said there was nothing wrong and told me to come back in a few years and i had to complain and then see private docs for a second opinion/to get referred for IVF.

What do you think, just start taking them daily now? I was thinking of taking a metronidazole course because I had staph etc show up when I had the test done over a year ago. Doctor didn't want me to do it again, which was confusing.

@thislittlebird the first was a core biopsy and it was chronic inflammation and the second was fine needle aspiration of a cyst which was fine. Erg the jobs issue is a nightmare. I can work from home mostly and have been here a few years which works well with treatment and how I feel, but only 6 weeks pay at 90% for maternity so I will have to go back asap as I have spent so much in treatment I have nothing more saved :( I had a internal interview this week and it was awful, the person that isn't very nice to me was awful, I wish I could leave because of them but I'm trapped as I'll get even less maternity if I left now. Low platelets can cause bleeding and high thrombosis so it's good you take clexane in cycles. You probably want to be on something more broad spectrum like coamoxiclav if you had staph.

@Gardenlady543 and they spotted all those things on a normal scan? I'm happy working from home mostly, it's helped me cope with all this. We're going to have to borrow some money to finish this process tbh, it's not ideal but we need to get through it all as fast as possible now I'm 40 and don't have time to save enough. 6 weeks at 90% is really mean.

Internal interviews can be really hard, I'm dreading doing one. Another one I did just went terribly and I knew one of the panel, it was so embarrassing. Was that person interviewing you? I know one of the people interviewing me will be a guy who already rejected me for a similar job before and I know one of the others will probably think I'm not up to it. External are easier in some ways.

I have slightly high platelets, not low, is Clexane bad in that case? Lister doctor was not bothered when I asked him. Not sure I'll be able to get co-amoxiclav, would have to go to my doctor and ask for it and he might say I don't need it again.

@thislittlebird what things on a scan? I agree about the interviews the person decided to reignite a really sensitive argument they had with my months ago. I thought it was unnecessary, unfair and not relevant. The thing is they will likely interview someone they know less and give it to them because they could just say what they want to hear which you can't do internally. High platelets can cause thrombosis that's why clexane is good.

@thislittlebird
yes in the monitored cycle both deep pelvis endo and adenomyosis was spotted. Haven’t had a hycosy before that is my next step.

I think if you feel like endo could be the problem then I would look at getting it sorted asap. But apparently it can also get better from pregnancy (or so I’ve been told) but I guess it’s getting pregnant is mine and many others problem!

I wonder why they wouldn’t let you test again to see if the staph is still there? I think it would be good to confirm it’s gone if you can

@Gardenlady543 I mean they found the breast abnormalities on an ultrasound, or a mammogram?

Oh wow, they did that in an interview??? Yeah, I'm struggling with that too. I can't embellish here, they know what I've done. It's frustrating when they won't go with the proven person.

Ok glad the Clexane is good. Not sure whether to take aspirin as well as the 10mg pred for the next transfer, I know some people do.

@Sar1010 Good that they found it! I don't feel like it is an issue, it's never been mentioned and I have had a lot of scans and a hycosy etc, it just bothers me because I never had the lap. My gut says my issue is my immune system, but if this next euploid transfer with pred fails, we'll go back to looking at ERA etc. It's not that they didn't want me to test, it's that I tested elsewhere a while back and my doctor clearly doesn't feel that I need to repeat the antibiotics. I might ask him again.

@thislittlebird so the first was a cycle where my estradiol was 8000 in a FET, my specialist mentioned estradiol producing tissue (cancer) and I had loads of breast changes. The FET didn't work, I came off the meds and estradiol and breast went back to normal, I went and they ultrasound scanned the areas where the lumps had been and saw an abnormality and did a core biopsy that was chronic inflammation.

The next was a cycle abroad and they do ultrasounds as routine and saw a BIRAD3 lesion and said repeat ultrasound in 3 months, so my Gp Referred me to the breast clinic and they said this isn't how they do monitoring, they saw the lesion which looked like a cyst with tissue in it and biopsied it sent the fluid to the lab and it was fine.

And yup re the interview it was such a horrible experience, I actually vomited loads that night and I haven't vomited this whole time :(

I was told not to take aspirin until an established pregnancy as it inhibits cox 2 which is important for implantation.

In case anyone is interested Dr Gorgy's clinic is doing a webinar.

@Gardenlady543 thank you for sharing the webinar info! Are you currently taking aspirin? When I asked about it for my first FET, the guidance was if I want to take it after a positive pregnancy test, I can. When I ask at my scan on Monday I expect I’ll be told the same. Not sure what the right thing to do is

@Spin101 Your scan is a day before mine! Good luck. I’m on inhixa every night but don’t know much about aspirin. I know that with my son the midwife wanted to give me aspirin but as I was under 40 then it was not deemed necessary.

@Gardenlady543 I’m sorry you were sick and your job is stressful. I’m getting worried about what to eat as going off certain foods and wanting bad foods.

@2021ivfagain thank you! I hope your scan goes well! I’m also going off healthy food. I’ll ask them about aspirin again. I read somewhere that some doctors recommend it when you’ve had covid in early pregnancy but not sure how much evidence there is behind that.

@Gardenlady543 I’m surprised the person who isn’t nice to you was allowed to interview you given the circumstances!

@thislittlebird my job is government so a good package. My issue was my two bosses were horrible and openly told me they didn’t think I was good enough for my role despite previous bosses being very happy with my work. They also gave me random tasks with no instructions. I really just blocked it out. I just did what I could and figured I’d use the job to facilitate the ivf as they were good about appointments. I did promise myself if it didn’t work I would be focusing on my career and would move team or area. It is a tough one to decide what to do when ivf takes years and your career stalls. That 3 day job sounds like it would be good for you.

re antibiotics I also had staph (and strep) and I was given amoxicillin antibiotics.

good luck everyone with scans. Don’t worry about food. I was so sick the whole time I survived on white toast and Chinese takeaway.

@Spin101 so nobody told me to start aspirin, I asked Dr Gorgy when I was reviewed at around 10 weeks and he said I should have started it with an established pregnancy. The person at my job is in charge unfortunately, they upset me so much a few months ago that I started looking around for another job and then they chose to reignite the argument in the interview :( . I'm kind of trapped now, so I don't know, they are just horrible.

@2021ivfagain all you can do is your best. I used to start my day with a super healthy smoothie now I eat 4 slices of heavily buttered (vitalite) toast.

So @Spin101 your scan is Monday and @2021ivfagain your scan is Tuesday? Good luck both of you, not long to go now!!

How's everyone else doing?

@Enfys23 I’m so sorry about your most recent cycle and I completely understand your frustrations with the clinic too with little monitoring as I feel the same. I had to beg for the pred and clexane on my next transfer but I almost feel scared of throwing everything at it then that failing too!

Ive heard really good things about Manchester fertility - my neighbours used them and a friend and also great things about create with the mild IVF and batching. A lady I met on a group had an AMH under 2. Did create and the batching and first transfer luckily worked for the mild IVF.

My dr said there wasn’t much point doing the lap because the down Reg would do the same but I just wanted to check as I’d been on the waiting list for so long. My adenonyosis was caused from my 19 week loss. I knew straight after something wasn’t right as my periods changed and just for gradually stranger over the last 2 years.

Id consider another egg collection and then a down Reg before another transfer? There is a full thread on inspire by Graham 15. Have to create a username but it’s a good read and lots of info! I’ve just taken my second prostap today and I’ve not had a period since May which was my withdrawal bleed so I’m hoping my estrogen is super low but my adenomyosis is focal aswell as diffuse and on my lining so I’m a bit of a lost cause.

Thinking of you tomorrow @Spin101 @2021ivfagain xx

I really hear you on the job issues @thislittlebird @Dochas12111 sounds like it’s a common theme for us IVFers…I really hope you can some to some resolution that makes work life a bit more bearable @thislittlebird

Thank you for that info @VenusStarr and so reassuring to know you’ve heard good feedback about the clinics @Loz2467

Good morning wonderful people ❤️

Just been stepping back from this a little upon advice from my therapist hence why I haven’t been as active.

@Enfys23 I really don’t think it’s over for you yet and a multi-cycle package with a clinic specialising in DOR sounds like a good plan. I’m sorry form my single failed IVF round I really ain’t best placed to provide advice, but agree a clinic with proper monitoring and EC 7/7 days would be a better option for me. I’m with the same clinic as @2021ivfagain and agree they’re excellent at monitoring. They’re open Mon-Sat for BAU, but also do EC and other time-sensitive procedures like ERA and FET on Sundays, but they’re in London so probably no use to you.

@Spin101 this is what I know about aspirin from my personal experience if it helps:

• in the middle of my 3rd pregnancy after 2 losses, I came across a study, according to which very low dose daily aspiring (75mg) reduces the risk of miscarriage and improves love birth rates for women who experienced at least 1-2 previous losses - whilst not making any difference to others. Apparently the benefits are more effective if taken for at least 6 weeks before conception and at least 4 days a week. This would suggest that by reducing inflammation, there might be some positive impact on egg quality perhaps, as well as it thinning the blood and reducing risk of pre-clampsia. I decided off the back of this and also alignment with my EPU to start taking it and continued even after that pregnancy was lost, thinking impact wouldn’t have been noticeable on that pregnancy as I didn’t start it 6 weeks prior and seems to my case the most benefits would be pre-conception.
• At my very first consultation with a fertility clinic, which we initially reached out to to investigate possible causes for recurrent MC, my consultant told me to stop taking aspirin immediately as it may stop me from ovulating in the first place so I stopped.
• The same consultant prescribed 75mg of it from a PPT in a natural cycle and from confirmed ovulation in case of ET cycle. My NHS recurrent MC consultant prescribed the same as the clinic.
• I had a further natural pregnancy when I took the 75mg as prescribed alongside enoxaparin from a PPT and still miscarried due to embryo abnormality. In the run up for FET I was concerned about the impact 150mg may have on my sensitive stomach lining and also learnt on here from @Gardenlady543 that aspirn actually had a negative impact on implantation because of the COX 2 inhibition so I decided not to take it, the FET ended in a chemical.
• Fast forward to a 4th MC from natural conception and a chemical from my only ever FET, I started seeing a different clinic and trying a different approach. That clinic prescribed 75mg aspirin straight away from the first appointment and throughout the first 12 weeks of pregnancy in case of positive test. They told me such a low dose is not known to prevent ovulation (as a matter of fact I definitely ovulated in my first SO cycle with them), but there are real known benefits in taking it pre-conception for people like me who experienced recurrent MC and have issues of egg quality. I tried rising the concerns about it preventing implantation and she was dismissive of it.
• Because that first cycle didn’t work out despite me producing 2 eggs and having no other known issues potentially affecting implantation l, I decided for this next cycle to stop it from confirmed ovulation for 10 days and restart it then in case of PPT hoping to avoid any significant impact on implantation at this point, but still reaping all other pre-conception and blood thinning benefits afterwards.

Sorry for those having a terrible time with work on top of everything else this brings, makes it that extra bit of hard none of us needs.

@2021ivfagain and @Spin101 good luck with your scans, I’ll be thinking of you both, I hope you manage to keep sane between now and then 💕🍀

Anyone heard of or have an experience/opinion on Prof Quenby/Brosens clinic in Coventry? Someone mentioned it to me this weekend.

By the way any migraine sufferers on here - I invested in a Cefaly device and while I’ve still had the migraine crash on stopping hormones it’s not been nearly as disabling with using Cefaly. Still in the 6 week trial period when can get money back but so far so good. Really hope it does the trick as it’s one of the things that makes this IVF journey worst for me.

Thank you @clhiu Hope you’re doing okay

@Enfys23 I saw prof Brosens. I paid the money which was for a consultation and 2 endometrial biopsies. They were doing a test where they looked at the number of nk cells in the endometrium rather than looking at activity. It took a while to process, they told me they were moving to a faster test which I think they have now. With my implantation failure I was told my nk cells would likely be very high but they weren't, they were normal and low. I was told there was no issue and to keep trying without any additional treatment and also told there was someone who had 10 cycles of Ivf and then got pregnant naturally, which wasn't particularly helpful to hear. Anyway fast forward to me seeing a RI and having more tests and treatment and the immune protocol seemed to work for me. I think ai should have just gone to the RI in the first place. I do think what they are doing is good though as they are collecting data for research and the aspirin information came from him.

Thank you @Gardenlady543 @clhiu @Spin101.

My scan is on Tuesday. I’ll be 6w 5d. Good luck @Spin101

@Gardenlady543 I had my microbiome results back and clindamycin cleared BV infections but obviously due to lack of lactobacillus I think I will stay on probiotics throughout. They are definitely helping. The strange thing is my gynaecologist does not want to get involved in helping me now I am pregnant. He wanted me to take antibiotics later on just to prevent it coming back but I certainly can’t take more oral probiotics.

I have stopped my oral IBS probiotic as not enough is known about its safety. So sorry for tmi but I am now getting ibs lots of poo every morning. It’s how I used to be before I started probiotics. The thing is so many probiotics are targetted towards constipation but I get the opposite. Even symprove would not help. I think all the oral probiotics have damaged my gut. The issue is cyclogest makes it worse as I have to take it rectally. So my morning cyclogest is always delayed. Is anyone else having same issue? I think I digest my food too quickly and my body is in a rush to get rid of it!

@Gardenlady543 How much vitamin D do you take each day?

Also with regards to vitamin D, I used to take 3000iu every day before transfer and my vitamin D was 116 which was good. Now we are getting lots of rain in Plymouth I’m taking pregnacare but it only has 400iu so sometimes I take 1000iu every so often. I have noticed my tsh has changed with the drop in vitamin D.

@2021ivfagain so interesting that you have brought up vitamin D as I've been looking into this! So I have always taking 2000unirs a day, a prominent vegan doctor Michael Gregor advises vegans to take 2500units. Now the Uk vitamin d blood level range is quite a lot lower than USA. So I tested my vitamin d a few weeks ago and it was 66.4nmol/L. I decided it could be better so went to 3000units a day. My repeat has come back at 90nmol/L, which I think is a good level. My midwife said the nhs advise 1000units so I should reduce down. However the American colleague of obs and gynae say, "Although data on the safety of higher doses are lacking, most experts agree that supplemental vitamin D is safe in dosages up to 4,000 international units per day during pregnancy or lactation" so I'm satisfied that 3000 units is fine. I have a history of osteopenia, I'm vegan so my calcium intake is always going to be an issue and the steroids wouldn't have helped.

I am continuing to take optibac for women and bio femme v, both are safe in pregnancy.

You will just have to try and get the cyclogest in when you can. I found the morning one a nightmare as sometimes I could really need to go right after putting it in, I tried to hold off for 2 hours but on some occasions I had to go after 30 mins.