ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

@clhiu this is what I did actually, I was doing the tests and got to a point where I was so many dpt that it was clear it hadn't worked, I stayed on my meds as per my clinics advice until the OTD but booked in the smear.

Hello there. I’ve a question about omega 3 supplements please.
I just noticed this morning on the tub of omega 3 (fish oil) supplements I have, it says not to be used in pregnancy.
Since two separate specialists advised taking omega3 supplements to improve egg quality I’ve been taking these same supplements for over a year and a half, including throughout any 2ww.
I asked at the time whether I should stop them in case of pregnancy and was told I could as most of its benefits are pre-conception, but they wouldn’t be detrimental to a potential baby if I continued.
I know anything liver-based should be avoided in pregnancy because of high vitamin A content, but these aren’t cod liver oil and it doesn’t say anything on the packaging that suggests it’s extracted from the liver, it just references fish gelatine.
If any other nutrients besides omega3 were present in significant quantity in the capsules, shouldn’t they be listed anyway?
Would you stop taking them or would you source a type that definitely isn’t extracted from the liver?
For those of you who’ve taken omega 3 supplements, did you take them throughout, including after a PPT or stopped at ovulation/et?
Thanks

@clhiu I got completely confused with omega, I took the vegan Tesco own brand, I like you took it for egg quality, I also kept at it as a daily supplement. Then when I went down the immunology route for transfers I got confused, one of the clinics in USA have formulated an omega that is supposed to be beneficial in a similar way to intralipids because of the ratios of the different omegas (www.preventmiscarriage.com/Omega-3-Optimize-Offers-a-Natural-Approach-to-restore-optimal-fatty-acid-profile-reduce-your-inflammation-and-improve-your-egg-or-semen-quality.html).

So this then made me worried that for transfers and pregnancy, I wouldn't be on the right ratio and since I was doing intralipids, I wasn't sure if that was doing the work of omegas so I've not been taking them. I had been adding flaxseed to my smoothies though, but haven't been having smoothies for quite some time now.

Thank you @Gardenlady543 so as far as you know/understand, vitamin A shouldn't be a concern unless it's specifically from cod liver? Thanks for the link as well, I may try this product as I cannot afford intralipids at the moment although I need them.

Could you also please help me interpret the results of my latest Pg/E2 test? I've been concerned about estrogen imbalance due to unusual levels of breast tenderness over the past 3 cycles and unusual spotting mdi-way through the luteal phase, which can point to low progesterone.
I had a blood test Monday last week abroad, in what I presume counted as follicular phase (CD 11, 3 days before ovulation assuming confirmed ovulation by BBT tracking and OPK is correct), results were:

• E2 808 pmol/L (high for follicular, but within range for mid-cycle/ovulation)
• Pg 0.3 nmol/L (just about within range for follicular, but on the low side, below range for mid-cycle/ovulation)

I decided to repeat the test today with Medicheck in the UK (CD 20, 6 DPO) to ensure Progesterone had been rising post ovulation and due to the breast tenderness raging again since OD, results are:

• E2 668 pmol/L (pretty much in the middle of luteal phase range, but actually dropped since previous test)
• Pg 42.2 nmol/L (just over the mid-way point for luteal phase, but low for optimal implantation, so I guess supplementation is advisable)

The ratio for luteal phase appears correctly in favour of Progesterone as it should be, however it's probably lower than it could be, I read the optimal ration should be 200/1, whilst mine today was only 71.
Can I ask you what would be your interpretation of these results please? Would you say there are any concerning signs of estrogen dominance or any concerns with my progesterone levels that cannot be fixed with Cyclogest supplementation for example?

As always, I really really appreciate your help, I cannot afford to pay for a new consultation and my GP is useless with this king of stuff so hoping I can do some investigations and draw some conclusions without.

Thank you :)

@clhiu I don't know much about vitamin A, but there is a limit for pregnancy.

I'm not that great with hormones either, best time to test estradiol is CD3-5 when it should be low, the increase is what is coming from the follicle and can be used to assess if there is a mature follicle there, around 1000 per follicle is expected (I think). Post ovulation is harder to advise on, there are some studies that tried to find optimum levels for pregnancy but all the studies vary. Some clinics avoid fresh transfers when estradiol is very high eg over 5000, as they think this isn't a good state for pregnancy, but then fresh transfers do work for some. In the UK none of the specialists monitor estradiol in pregnancy (as far as I'm aware), they do in USA though.

Your progesterone level looks like it confirms ovulation. Several studies show an optimum progesterone around your level and poor outcomes in higher levels. But all the RIs like it high and I'm sure you've seen several of us now with levels over 100 that have been fine.

@clhiu i took mor dha omega 3 for years while TTC and during pregnancy without issue. This is it - suitable in pregnancy

https://www.inishpharmacy.com/p/minami-mordha-prenatal-high-dha-formula-60-pack/100211?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgpfBnPOMgwMVB5VQBh39nwMoEAQYASABEgLdF_D_BwE

I was also told omega 3 was very important.

@Gardenlady543 how long to go now? So excited for you!

News wise I’ve done my second repeat Emma/Alice and hoping it shows improvement and then I can go ahead with transfer in end Jan/Feb. I am taking my supplements but I am eating all the chocolate 🙈🙈 prep will need to start in earnest after Christmas. I don’t think I’ll get my results until after Christmas.

how are you getting on @CailinInUK

Hi all @Gardenlady543 @Sar1010 hope you are well!
does anyone know if balance activ can be taken in pregnancy in case of BV or thrush and how ? Specially when followed b canesflor?
also shall we monitor vaginal PH after FET
Thanks as always

Thank you so much @Gardenlady543 🙏, I even when not your direct area of expertise, your advice is always super helpful. I may repeat the estradiol test day 3-5 of my next cycle just to see.

thanks @Dochas12111, I’ll check those out x

@Dochas12111 c section is 3 weeks on Friday. But I had a private scan at the weekend and I've dropped a lot of centiles, my midwife was worried when I showed her, so I'm waiting to hear back from the hospital on if they want to scan me and decide what to do. Had a bit of a hard time post NCT course (I did it 6 weeks ago), they advise to go on it and people make friends for life, I found out this week one of the attendees made a group for the women on the course and left me and the other girl that did IVF out. Feels like mean girls, I'm really not used to this, I'm not in any girl groups and I tend to gravitate towards kind and compassionate friends. That's exciting that you're close to transfer. :)

@Mybabydream I'm pretty sure balance activ says safe in pregnancy on the leaflet, but do double check. I haven't monitored pH or used any acid products in pregnancy as I am not sure about how pH changes then and I think keeping an eye out for symptoms and the weekly vaginal probiotic is the best option for me.

Thanks @Gardenlady543
how much should the ph be to take balanc activ?

@Mybabydream pH needs to be under 4.5, it goes up during menstruation and goes up slightly at ovulation. I'm not sure about levels in pregnancy.

@Gardenlady543 ah ok thanks! And canesflor is independent of pH right?

@Mybabydream what do you mean?

@Gardenlady543 canesflor can be taken if high or low ph ?

@Gardenlady543 that sounds nasty and really uncalled for from those people, absolutely no need and I wonder what their problem is! I often wish all the people in this group lived closed by and could hang out in real life after all we’ve shared and been through together 💗

I hope the concerns about percentile can be resolved without causing too much additional stress x

Thanks @clhiu , has really upset me,'I just don't get it. After a 2 day course to start a group and leave people out.

@Mybabydream yes you can use in any pH it's good to use every so often to help maintain lactobacillus.

Hi @Mybabydream sorry I don’t know much about balance activ! I’m ok I had my 3rd and fin beta which came back 3512. And progesterone is 113. So they don’t want to see me until 7 weeks but I’ll actually be away so I have to find a clinic in Canada to do the scan. Just trying to weigh whether to do it at 6 weeks or wait, still absolutely terrified that there will be nothing there when I go for the scan. I know you @Gardenlady543 had similar feelings too. I guess I was expecting more symptoms by now- though I’m very tired, irritable and starving all the time. But I was expecting swollen boobs and that “feeling” of pregnancy. I’m 5+3 so maybe it’s too early.

I did ask my consultant about taking canesflor but they haven’t replied still. So I’m still taking 1 a week.

@Gardenlady543 what a shitty thing to do, I hope you and the other woman have managed to find a connection? Some people can be so mean, sorry about that. I would be upset too.

@Gardenlady543 I’ve never heard something so ridiculous re NCT group. At least you can console yourself they clearly weren’t your kind of people. I honestly wouldn’t worry about mum friends. We don’t have NCT in Ireland. I had a lovely time on maternity leave and I didn’t make any proper mum friends. I went to a group every week and chatted to different people and had a nice time but that was it. Plus I enjoyed meeting up with my own friends more than random people and not just having baby talk as you’ve other things in common.

Hope all goes ok with your checks over the next while. Mind yourself x

@Gardenlady543 how awful! It's hard but better off without people like that and finding out down the line.
As for the centiles, how much has it dropped by? If placental blood flow/dopplers are OK they tend to monitor closely and maybe discuss induction a little early, balancing what gestation you are. Depending on local policies blood sugar monitoring will likely be needed if less than 37 weeks; we get a fair few preterm inductions for slowing or static growth for example. Have they indicated what they're thinking? X

@Sar1010 I wouldn't do a scan until at least 6+3, I've seen too many people go earlier and get stressed as it's too early even though things then turned out fine. So if you're away then you may as well wait until the booked 7 week scan, my clinic made me wait until 8 weeks so I did one at 6.5 privately.

Thanks about the NCT stuff, I got a message responding about 3 days after I messaged to the person that had invited me when I had said it had upset me, I think another message has just come through from another person on the course, I don't really want to open them if I'm honest, i don't think I'm in the the best place to deal with it right now.

@kerrym87 so they won't act on a private scan and my consultant won't bring next weeks scan forward, by that time it would have been 4 weeks since my last NHS scan with high centiles and almost 2 weeks since the private concerning scan. So they said I could go in for a CTG in the maternity assessment unit, I went in yesterday. I needed to meet the Dawes Redman criteria, ideally in 30 mins, it didn't happen so they went to 60 mins and started talking about admission, then I met the criteria in the last minute. They then got worried as I was constantly having "contractions" but felt nothing, this meant I had to have a speculum to check I wasn't in labour (closed cervix so fine) and that then made me bleed. The doctor said he would have brought forward the scan but can't because my consultant said no. So overall that didn't make much difference.

Sorry about the info, don't want to be triggering or upsetting to anyone talking about this stuff.

@Gardenlady543 how frustrating! Any concerns about baby's movements, even if brief just get yourself back in. It may be fine and you'll go to term but just be prepared they may move it forward. All the best wishes sent your way.

@Gardenlady543 can you request a second opinion from a different consultant in the unit?
So sorry to hear about the NCT group; they’re not worth your time though remember that. I know that doesn’t help how you feel though.

@Dochas12111 hope the biopsy results are good and you get them ASAP.

@Sar1010 thats great news about the HCG. Thinking of you as you await the first scan.

@Dochas12111
That’s great your biopsy is done. Is the wait also up to 10 working days in Ireland for results or will it be longer? I think you had a long wait for the previous biopsy. I had mine on 30/11 and got my results yesterday, 18/12. Surprisingly, all is well. My lactobacillus was 96% (EMMA), all tests for endometritis were negative (ALICE) and my natural modified ERA was receptive. So all good, despite the dreadful Fertilysis results some 7 weeks previous. The antibiotic (Cephalexin) for the UTI in between both tests seems to have done the trick on the strep and staph. But, I don’t think Igenomix tests for all the pathogens that Fertilysis tests for so unconfirmed if the eubacterium, mobiluncus and corynebacterium are gone. It’s likely they are, due to my high lacto %. I tried to book a consultation with Fertilysis but unfortunately nothing available until 8th Jan. I ordered a Fertilysis retest anyway a while back so will use that on my period in early Jan. I could transfer late Jan but going to give myself another month. If we did tx in Jan and it worked, that would mean all family birthdays within one week of each other. Seems so petty, given all we’ve been through, to even consider this, and I’d take it in a heartbeat, but now we have a choice, I’ll wait until Feb, which will come around so slowly.I can’t believe my results were good.
Thank you for letting me know your antibiotics a while back, and same to you @Gardenlady543

@Gardenlady543
I hope you’re doing ok. It can get nervy towards the date but not much longer for you, you deserve this happy ending so much.

@Enfys23
did you manage to choose a clinic that’s satisfactory? Hope your recovery is going well?

@Sar1010
quiet congrats to you and hopefully not long until your scan now?!

@kerrym87
have you started the long protocol yet? Sounds like a good idea to try it. Some people say down reg is tough but I handled it fine, and I did it back to back for an embarrassing number of cycles.

@2021ivfagain
thanks for letting me know about your natural modified FET despite all you’re going through. I just hope we can all come out of this the other side and heal from all the trauma. How are you at the moment?

@CailinInUK prostap is 28th Dec. I know that I had side effects last time but this time different drugs, lower dose. Its just the down regs as I already suffer from headaches, fatigue and brain fog which are most common reported😒 equally may be ok. I have started a migraine preventative medication now which seems to already be helping .
It's good about your lactobacilii, mine was at 74% but haven't retested, had doxycycline course 10 days straight after and didn't have gbs or any other major concern so just did weeks probiotic treatment then do one a week to keep topped up

@CailinInUK that's great news about the ingenomix results!