ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

@APSR yes it came out as receptive. I did an initial ERA which said I should transfer Day 6 so I did another ERA on Day 6 and it came back receptive. The progesterone test is done that day was 4. As we had found the receptive window I just did the same for actual transfer and upped progesterone afterwards.

@Dochas12111 So your transfer was after 5 full days of progesterone as per era is it ? Which is the actually the norm right? Even if we don’t get the era done generally fet is done after 5 days (120hrs of progesterone)

@APSR no if was done on day 6 which was when they found I was receptive from the ERA. So first ERA done on the normal time scale and said I was pre receptive. 2nd era was done on day 6 and found to be receptive. Transfer was done on day 6.

were trying au natural again this month (definitely not feeling in the slightest optimistic about it but thought why not whilst we wait for NK cell blood test appointment and we’ve been told to try after the laporscopy). But I’m thinking I might take some of my left over cyclogest after ovulation. It’s probably useless but worth a try?!

im told to take aspirin when I’ve had transfers (because of the MTHFR mutation) but I’ve read that this can also STOP implantation so I don’t think I’ll be taking that. Does anyone have any big opinions on this? To take or not to take? Ha

im day 9 of cycle now and was hoping to take some canesflor just to boost my lactobacillus but should I wait until after ovulation or shouldn’t it matter?

a friend of mine has just done her first ivf transfer and has BFP. So struggling with a bit of jealousy and that kick fire productiveness that happens when someone “takes over you”

it’s also coming up to 2 years since our last BFP (that was a CP)… since then zilch so feeling frustrated and exhausted

@Sar1010 Sorry to hear it’s ongoing since your last bfp. I know there’s some advice and unknowns about taking aspirin. I am on aspirin first time on protocol and I have mthfr. It’s my first BFP after numerous transfers. Into week 6 and HCG risining well.
Take the probiotics now! Why not? I still use canesflor now and then for a top up. I used garden lady’s advice and stopped a day either side of transfer.

@Sar1010 maybe ask them about low weight molecular heparin? I know how you feel, my in laws had 7% chance if success she was 43 got 2 eggs, both transferred on first try and evie is now 6 months old. Meanwhile 3 failed cycles later with nothing to freeze, also colleague who has no filter or awareness of neither banged in about ttc #2 to EVERYONE and guess what pregnant 1st try. I still get angry and frustrated, especially working on baby unit where we get babies through for place of safety due to child protection, i wish i could just take them home they are so cute and its so sad!

@Sar1010 I wouldn't take aspirin unless there is an established pregnancy. Whenever I discuss it some people will say they took it and were fine. The thing is as someone who had four years without a positive test, I clearly didn't need to add in a medication that would reduce the chance of implantation further. LMWH is better, but outside of monitored cycles or IVF it would be hard to get. Once I was pregnant and discharged from my fertility clinic my gp was happy to prescribe.

I avoid probiotics around ovulation time because the body will naturally increase the vaginal pH at this time as sperm like a higher pH.

@kerrym87 sorry to hear about your colleague :( at a work event last week I got into a conversation with a couple of women who were talking about how people constantly ask about children and it just seems so rare for people to realize how intrusive this question is, some people are just oblivious to others :(

How are you getting on @SallyLovelady is your scan coming up soon?

Ah thanks everyone! @SallyLovelady so pleased to hear things are ticking over for you.

@Gardenlady543 thanks, I think I will hold off from probiotics from now on, still ok to carry with Kefir and kimchi in diet though? Would you go back on to probiotics post ovulation? I'm using the clear blue monitor again so should know when I have ovulated (hopefully!)
I have just had Immune bloods for NK should hear in a week or so and then depending on the results I think I will get into with Dr Gorgy, although my clinic (the Evewell) are pretty hot on immune treatment too so might weigh them both up. Both in Central london too.

@kerrym87
Oooh I havent heard of Low weigh molecular heparin but will certainly ask about that in my clinic meeting tomorrow. Oh, I feel you. It's seems the ones struggling get stuck intensely close to those that just get lucky. None of my close close friends are even remotely interested in getting pregnant yet but I dread the day so much. Always hoping I get lucky before I have to witness growing bellies all around me. The others that are pregnant I just remove myself from their circle for a bit.

Another Q I have is about Folate/folic/metformin
I have PAI 4g/5g and recommended I take 2mg Folate per day. What is the difference between these three? Am i right in thinking Folate is just a stronger form of Folic? Googled this a lot and got lots os science articles that have gone over my head a tad.

@Sar1010 oh yeah I take oral Probiotics and eat probiotic food all the time. For my transfer I just didn't use the vaginal probiotics for two days around transfer time then went back to using them daily. So you could start up again in a few days.

I take methylfolate as I have the MTHFR mutation, I buy it from Amazon. I have the PAI-1 mutation and I don't take that much, I take 1000mcg a day plus there is 800micrograms of it in my naturola prenatal . I also take a vitamin b complex that has some folic acid in but that's because I'm vegan so I need to make sure I get enough b vitamins.

I’m wondering if my consultant will likely want to repeat the same protocol as I did have implantation? Just worried if it was my body or something we haven’t discovered yet rather than the embryo. And if it was the embryo I’m also worrying as I’ll be going onto my fourth one and they are obviously going down in quality and worrying that we used my 2 best quality when I had no chance because of the adenomyosis not being under control.

Im in for my review on the 12th oct. Anything I should be asking? I’m definitely going to ask if the next one fails if we can do a natural modified as less hormones are best for adeno anyway.

shall I take a few days of doxy followed by probiotics? That’s what I did in august? But obviously don’t want to get rid of all good bacteria.

Not sure what I can do to prep in the meantime. My withdrawl bleed has been so light but could be because excess estrogen was more controlled this time around but I’m stressing my lining hasn’t shed properly which is common with the adeno anyway.

plus i had lap and hyterscopy last time so I’m worried this may of helped implantation and I’m obviously not going to have surgery again.

sorry for so many questions. X

My immune blood test results have come back normal. I feel weird about it, I think I was really expecting something to be wrong and to give an explanation to why I am struggling with implantation. This was my feelings after ERA, EMA and Alice too. Perhaps the endo & Adeno (plus PAI 4G/5G and MTHFR) are the only issues I have that are affecting implantation. Maybe I should be grateful that its less to worry about, I don't know. confusing.

One line that does confuse me from the report is this:
"They have come back showing no increased presence of Natural Killer cells and
Cytokine. When the blood was analysed in greater detail it was clear that Prednisolone had the maximum effect in reducing the circulating Natural Killer cells. Based on these results there does not appear to be a clear indication for additional measures at this time"

Does this mean that post transfer I should take Prednisolene or it isnt needed?

Would love to hear everyones input!

@Sar1010 who did you have the tests with? I think the best option is to talk through the results with a reproductive immunologist.

It was with the clinic I have done my EC and FETs with .. The Evewell. Yeah do you think I could arrange a consultation with Dr Gorgy to chat through the results and see what he thinks?
Or perhaps I am adding extra costs and stress to something that doesnt need it.

@Sar1010 I mean this is what I'd do, he may suggest other tests, but he's pretty flexible if you say you want a treatment plan based on the tests you've done he'll give you this.

@Sar1010 have you ever down regulated on Prostap before any of your transfers? It worked for me on my third transfer I got a strong possible but sadly HCG went down. My embryos aren’t tested. Hoping it’s the embryo and I do have success one day but who knows. So much unknown about adenomyosis. I’m on the adenomyosis miracles FB page too.

@Gardenlady543 what is your view on this ? Have been taking 2 canesflor per day and optibac/femdophilus for the past 2 months. Still no improvement in my lactobacillus count. Have been asked to take clindamycin followed by vaginal probiotics to increase the lactobacillus. Don’t know what else I can take to increase the good bacteria. I was of the opinion that Bifidobacterium was good bacteria. Is it not? Why does it recommend clindamycin?

@APSR you had a very similar result before I recall, I told you about this article doi.org/10.1002/rmb2.12250 which concluded that bifidobacterium dominant patients had similar results to lactobacillus dominant. The vaginal probiotic flora femme has some bifidobacterium in it, I took it as I felt maybe I was one of those people whose body preferred bifidobacterium rather than lactobacillus.

Clindamycin will kill off everything so it's worth a try to use it and then try the vaginal probiotics after to recolonize. Have you taken clindamycin before?

Nope. Was prescribed co-amoxiclav after my first era as I had strep. Back then my lactobacillus was around 8%. And due to an injury was put on co-amoxiclav by my gp. So have taken co-amoxiclav on 2 different occasions but never clindamycin. Repeated the Emma Alice again (in May) which showed that the infection was cleared but the lactobacillus was still low. And now again the levels are low(sep).

Were you able to get your lactobacillus levels up after taking flora femme ?
Have tried canesflor and vagibiom . For oral - Optibac and Femdophilus

@APSR I got my levels up as confirmed in the menstrual fluid microbiome test, I took flora femme, vagibiom and physioflor (you can't get this one now). The first two are from USA and are expensive but flora femme in particular has a lot of strains of bacteria and a high amount, they come in a 6 pack but I would take a packet with one daily at crucial times and the. Mix and match other brands.

Hi all, my health stuff came back with the all clear thankfully so I’m back looking for advice! I’d love to do a FET end November but I need to treat my endometrium first.

my results were 0% good bacteria and high quantities of staph and strep. Same as last time. Last time I treated with one week of antibiotics then 2 weeks of daily Canesflor and oral probiotics. Then every second day until transfer I took a Canesflor. I repeated the test two months later and my bad bacteria were down and good bacteria up to 75%. I continued with Canesflor every 2 days until transfer 2 months later.

so overall I was taking some probiotics for like 4 months! Has anyone had success treating it quicker? The 4 month delay was purely timings based to travel for treatment.

I was wondering if it would be ok to do the week of antibiotics next week then take Canesflor every day for a month until transfer and not repeat the biopsy.

is this a risky approach?

@Dochas12111 you could go straight into a transfer but you risk not correcting the microbiome and not knowing. My specialist told me not to repeat so I had 0% lactobacillus, treated, did a euploid transfer, no implantation, so repeated right after and I still had 0%, so I treated again and then did the fertilysis menstrual microbiome test and the result came back good.

I’ve been absent for awhile as it’s been tough. I had a 3d sis scan last week which showed some pregnancy tissue leftover so I have to have a hysteroscopy to remove it to prevent infection.

Before my transfer I was so determined but now I’m not so worried about what I eat and need to take the supplements again. I have 5 day 5 blastocysts frozen but cannot afford a transfer until probably January.

@CailinInUK How’s it going? Did you do another egg retrieval?

@clhiu How are you getting on?

Thinking of you @2021ivfagain sorry to hear you have the hysteroscopy to go through now :( did you get the genetic test results back yet?

@Gardenlady543 Cycles went back to normal as I had a period which lasted 6 days. Long for me. I have also ovulated this month as well.

IVF has also put pressure on my relationship with my husband. I’m working extra hours. My Dad now has advanced dementia due to severe stroke and no longer knows his family. He can’t come home now. I have my MIL coming around to look after my son whilst I teach online but I have lost so much motivation. I’ve even had some red wine and pizza and not cared. My counsellor has even listed all the reasons why a transfer might not be a good idea but that was when I was mentioning the disagreements with my husband. They have stopped now but my husband does not know how to talk to me anymore. It’s always me lately that makes the effort to hug him. He only hugs me goodnight. He’s tired a lot as working ridiculous shifts at work driving class 1 lorries.