ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

Thanks so much @Loz2467 ! It’s difficult to feel too excited as this is my sixth transfer and first BFP.

Both you and @Lyrabee are at care. I was at care northampton for 3 transfers - of total 4 embryos. At the time I spoke a lot about my flare ups of eczema and was told I was fine. First transfer my neck was covered in it. They didn’t recommend chicago tests until after second failure. Have they recommended them for you yet? It showed up numerous things for me and I’m now on predisolone clexane and aspirin as a consequence.

They just weren’t interested in micro biome at all - I called them once really stressed saying I was convinced I had an infection. They told me they only dealt with fertility. Turned out once I pushed my gp to test I had a staph infection!!

Subsequently I went abroad to ivf spain.

My first micro biome tests showed I had 5% lactobacillus- I hadn’t stood a chance I don’t think. Numerous rounds of antibiotics, antibiotics during transfers, 3 types of probiotics including vaginal, anti inflammatory diet no caffeine or gluten loads of kefir and other prebiotic food. I’m sure I don’t need to go over it all it’s spoken about so much here. But it’s important to get the micro biome sorted. I remember reading some of @Gardenlady543 posts months ago and treating it really seriously. I just wish providers like care would catch up with this thinking.

@thislittlebird how are you feeling?

@Loz2467 thank you! If there’s no evidence to say it’s not advised with adeno, I would push for it. I’ve had to put my foot down with the clinics a few times and say no, I want to try this option and then we’ll try the other option another time etc

@SallyLovelady I’m a bit anxious. Bloods in the morning so will see what’s happening in the next few days.

@clhiu hope you’re doing ok

@SallyLovelady what are the Chicago tests? It definitely all comes down to your consultant and what they believe and follow from research 😞 can I ask how you knew about the infection?
I've never had thrush but have had UTIs and I can itchiness around ovulation but tbh I rarely get any excess discharge either, not sure if that's healthy at all

Enjoy your BFP if you can let yourself 💛 x

@Lyrabee they test your immunology they go into details such as nk cells but also T helper cells among other things.
To be honest the staph was a weird one. I just didn’t feel right. Then I had some itchy ness and some bleeding mid cycle.
I too am prone to infections. I think a lot is linked to the micro biome - if you have low lactobacillus you don’t have protection from good bacteria.

@thislittlebird hope today brings you good news

Hi guys

good luck today @thislittlebird and congrats to those on their BFP!

my Emma/Alice results are back and interestingly they’ve reverted to the exact same as they were on my first sample back in 2021. So 0% good bacteria and high levels of staph and strep. The same types of bad bacteria. Seems this must be my uterus’s default. 🙈 recommendation is antibiotics and probiotics and a repeat sample.

last time I repeated after 2 months and good bacteria was up to 75% I kept taking probiotics and transferred without a retest 3 months later. Which is a long wait to transfer.

on top of this I had some bloods done in advance of my breast check and my amalyze is super high so I now need an ultrasound of my stomach gallbladder and pancreas too. So if that finds something a transfer could be off for a long time. So I am super stressed out and very worried it could be something serious.

so my plans for a transfer next month seem gone anyway 😢

@Dochas12111 oh that's interesting that it's gone back, maybe the best option is to treat and transfer soon after, maybe your body is prone to this microbiome. If the treatment worked well last time then hopefully it will again.

I'm sorry to hear about your amylase especially alongside the breast stuff, when this was happening to me in ivf I thought it was so unfair, like ivf is enough without additional health issues happening at the same time.

Hope today went well @thislittlebird

@Dochas12111 thank you! How frustrating, hopefully it's all ok and you can get back to transferring sooner than you think.

@Gardenlady543 it went well, I think. Was 667 at 11dp5dt, going back on Thursday to see what it is then.

This article was somewhat reassuring, hopefully it all continues to be positive: natalist.com/blogs/learn/what-is-a-good-beta-hcg-after-an-ivf-embryo-transfer?irclickid=0w33eK1AmxyPWPVQwBQsKwiDUkFU6q1lnWG%3AXU0&utm_source=impact_radius&utm_medium=affiliate&irgwc=1

@thislittlebird oh you're well ahead, I use beta base www.betabase.info/chart/basic/single mine were quite sluggish at 10dp5dt I was 152. Have you got a scan booked in yet?

@Gardenlady543 now I just have to hope it's increasing on Thursday. They said they'll book the scan after that test come back, which works for me.

I think I'm 15dpo, looks like a smaller percentage in my category on that chart?

@thislittlebird you're 16dpo, you have to add the two numbers.

@Gardenlady543 I think I was working it out as 15 because I didn't think I ovulated the day they did, but 16 looks better on that chart, and more normal for singles.

@thislittlebird this is the twin chart, www.betabase.info/chart/basic/twins was it a single or double transfer?

@Gardenlady543 single!

@thislittlebird there is always a chance it split, but you really can't tell from betas, I've heard of people with super high with a single and at the low end with twins. But for now you've got some good levels, the thing to remember with high levels is that the doubling can be slower than those who start low.

@Gardenlady543 interesting to know, I’m definitely anxious about the next one.

Hello everyone, so glad I've found this page! I did try and catch up on the thread, but there was so much that I gave up and thought I would just post :)

I have done 3 egg collections and had 4 transfers of euploid embryos in the past. The first worked and I have a daughter (burn in 2020). But my following 3 transfers have failed. Everything else looked fine - lining, womb structure etc. Felt especially hopeful this recent transfer as I had NK cells test, which were high, so was put on intralipids and steroids. I had a Hysteroscopy which removed some polyps. However, it didn't take and I bled from day 8. I'm now at a bit lost as to what to do next.

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced multiple implantation failures of euploid embryos? I've had 3 back to back now.

My hunch is that I have an undiagnosed autoimmune condition, as they seem o run in my family. I am also concerned that I might be mildly insulin resistant (although no one in the fertility world has ever mentioned this as a potential issue).

Anyway, thanks to everyone for sharing their stories on here. I am sorry we all have to go through this! Sending love and solidarity to you all xx

Hi @Wren123 yes I'm a recurrent implantation failure patient, there's a few of us here. There is a very good fb group called infertility and repeated implantation failure (RIF) support, that you might want to join. It sounds like you've been going down a good route with the investigations, who did your nk cell test, in the implantation failure group they often advise to check for endo (even if you think it's unlikely) with a lap and to see a reproductive immunologist, it's expensive but they are the most experienced in this area.

@Dochas12111 I haven't got quite the same issue but suboptimal levels of lactbacillys so Dr gorgy recommended a 6 day course of something like canesflor then one a week thereafter. Maybe you need to keep topping up with a little lactobacilli in there after you've treated bad bacteria and recognised x

@kerrym87 yes my consultant recommended antibiotics and physioflor if I can find it if not Canesflor. When I previously treated this I took the antibiotics then 2 weeks straight of Canesflor then one every second day until transfer to keep it topped up and it seemed to do the job. I know the box says one week and then one per week but I just upped it myself and it didn’t seem to do any harm if you want to consider that too!

@Gardenlady543 Thanks for your message and sorry you are also going through it. I'm currently at CRGH and had my NK cells test there. We initially said no to the ERA, EMMA and ALICE due to cost and an inconsistent evidence base. But now I'm wondering whether to just throw everything at it. It's such a bloody mystery! But I'm going to start the autoimmune protocol diet while I wait for further investigations. So hopefully that can help calm my immune response to some degree. I have also swapped cleaning products and beauty/care products to paraben and thylate free too. No idea if it will help, but trying it anyway as it can't hurt.

Did you see a reproductive immunologist separate to your IVF clinic?

@Wren123 yes I saw Dr Gorgy who put the plan in place for me and I had LIT with him. There is a menstrual fluid microbiome test with fertilysis you could look into.

@Gardenlady543 Were you prescribed all types of progesterone(Cyclogest and Intramuscular) or just Cyclogest for 5 days during your medicated ERA cycle?
My consultant feels it depends only on when you start the progesterone in medicated and when you trigger on natural modified era.
However, I somehow feel the levels of progesterone also matter and have a role in determining the implantation window.
My medicated era (was on 2 Cyclogest + 1 lubion and progesterone was 32) recommends 146hrs of progesterone and then doing the fet and the natural modified era was cancelled as my progesterone levels was super low at 9.
I am planning to repeat my medicated era once again to confirm whether it comes out receptive after 146 hrs but want to go ahead with all types of progesterone and then taking the test.

@APSR I think you're supposed to keep it the same but think I did mine with one lubion and two cyclogest. We ended up ignoring the era anyway. I think with your level being so low you are much better on prontogest, including in the era.

@APSR my repeat ERA was done on just two cyclogest and my progesterone was 4. That ERA found my receptive window so what my consultant did was put me on the same two cyclogest and do the embryo transfer at the receptive window and then a few hours after transfer I took a PIO injection and continued taking them for the first 3 months of pregnancy. After 3 injections I did a blood test and my progesterone was 99ish and remained high so it shot up very quickly.

Thanks @Gardenlady543 for letting me know.
@Dochas12111 what was era outcome with progesterone being 4 ? Did it come out as receptive?