ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @Enfys23 @clhiu @CailinInUK @Spin101 @Loz2467 @Mybabydream @Janefx40 @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 @Sar1010 @AM08 @thislittlebird @IVF22 @APSR
@Faithhopelove83 @KLM25 @VenusStarr
@BewilderedBee @Dochas12111 @seven201 @StillWishingHoping

We've maxed out the other one so here's thread 9 😊

@Enfys23 2-3 % morphology is not bad. We conceived my son with 3% morphology. My husband’s morphology was better when I was 40. The game changer was all the supplements recommended from
It Starts with the egg from
Rebecca Fett. I can’t recommend it enough. He changed his diet and took all these supplements. No other supplements worked. I wish I had known about this book when I was younger. I didn’t get married until 34. My egg quality was excellent until I got close to 41. I wish I could go back in time and encourage my husband to take all these supplements then. His morphology was 2% then.

The best thing we ever did was take supplements from Rebecca Fett’s book and change diet. Second thing was using IMSI. Icsi is not as good. If you really want to improve things further, use PIMSI. When we did icsi, things were not great and at that time my amh was nearly 17. It got better when we did IMSI.

If you need any more advice on this, please message me.

@Enfys23 In fact it was probably closer to 1% when we were younger.

Hi @Enfys23 , I heard of Mr Ramsay, but no experience seeing him. My clinic prescribed the following for men, even though my DH had normal SA and DNA frag.

• Wellman Conception
• Lycopene 10mg
• Selenium + Zinc
• Vitamin D 2000iu

@Enfys23 we’ve seen him. He would run the standard tests if you saw him, most likely, and say take impryl or proxeed. Have you done DNA frag? He’ll say that’s important but can’t imagine many other tests are worth it if he has normal count and motility.

My dh took Impryl and a couple of others such as Omega 3 and CoQ10 and his morphology definitely increased. Either way, it’s the part they’re least concerned by.

Sorry to hear your update and I hope you’re ok@2021ivfagain

Thanks @2021ivfagain @clhiu DH is keen to get DNA fragmentation tested so we will ask new clinic about that. I guess then go from there. He is making some dietary changes (mainly reducing sugar which is his main issue) and tbf is already very good on lifestyle factors.

@Enfys23 DH and I only had kyrotyping specific to the two issues found in the two babies we lost and tested. If abnormalities are found in the tissues, the NHS will take your bloods and have them tested for that same specific issue, in our case triploidy and a trisomy 15, we are not carriers of either so they happened by accident. On account that they were two different abnormalities and the 5 embryos we PGT-A tested all had different abnormalities too, I would say it's unlikely our issue if of a genetic nature and that one of us may carry a specific translocation so haven't considered paying for additional genetic testing on ourselves. We have no such issues in the family as well so assuming that's unlikely to be the cause, but for some genetic tests may be very valuable.

@Enfys23 my DH took

• proceive man
• mor DHA x2 daily ( DHA not EPA)
• uno cardio & vitamin d (one capsule once daily
• magnesium x2 daily
• biocare vitamin c 500 x2 daily

so high omega 3 to reduce inflammation in sperm plus vitamins.

Hello ladies
I'm looking endometrial receptivity tests, would you say they worked for you? Would you recommend a clinic in the UK that does them? How much do they cost? Thank you in advance xx

I’m really finding things difficult today. It’s so frustrating that my clinic wouldn’t let me do more egg retrievals when my levels were better at 40 in 2021 due to my consultant being on holiday, too busy or clinic wanting to close too early for Christmas that year. I know I am so lucky to have my son but as my Dad is really ill and my Mum is disabled, there’s not a lot of family for my son to interact with. I just wanted him to have a sibling but even though I have 5 day 5 blastocysts left frozen, that’s it. The grades are not as good and they can’t be tested as they have been frozen twice. If I had been allowed to do two more egg retrievals in the summer two years ago, I would have had about 18-20 blastocysts to PGS test. My egg quality was above average then. It seems like it’s over now.

I’m sorry for negative post.

Has anyone tried modified natural frozen embryo transfer? How do the success rates compare to medicated fet?

I’m sorry you’ve had a bad day @2021ivfagain

@APSR I’ve done them as my lining does better in natural cycle and I know the evidence for them is good. I didn’t have success (yet, hopefully) but don’t think that a reflection of the protocol.

@APSR I did a natural modified FET cycle with low dose stims and lining got to 15.7mm, but went down to 14mm on transfer day. I got pregnant but had a missed miscarriage at 8w 1d. I didn’t, however, take steroids as I was getting lots of infections. I believe natural modified FET cycle has higher success than medicated. I remember seeing some information about it.

Can someone tell me how to unwatch a thread? I’m still connected to the pregnancy thread. It’s a bit upsetting as I’m no longer pregnant. I hope I’m not offending others, but it’s just a reminder for me of what has happened. I still want to connect with the Emma, era, Alice thread.

Hi @2021ivfagain if you have the app on your phone, in the watching section slide the one you want to unfollow to the left and you'll see an unwatch symbol to click.
I hope you're ok.

Hope everyone is doing well, I just started feeling unwell and did a Covid test which is positive, think it's going around at the moment so everyone be careful when out and about.

@Gardenlady543 I’m really sorry you have covid. I always avoid trains now when going to London, but can’t afford them anyway.

I’m finding things really difficult. I don’t want to take my son to playgroup just in case people are taking babies there. I have 5 day 5 blastocysts left frozen but that’s it. All untested. My clinic messed me around and now it’s too late. My husband had the best morphology when I was 40. Everything is too late. My mother in law doesn’t think I should do another transfer. Problem is I need to do one quickly before I get bad as I believe natural modified FET is better. I did badly with medicated FET at my clinic.

I’ve been bleeding since last Wednesday (so almost 10 full days) not much now, but comes and goes. I have to take a pregnancy test two weeks after bleeding stops completely.

I have a follow-up this week with consultant and worried he will be really negative. Obviously, I can’t PGS test now and due to my clinic’s delays, I only have this one cycle. I have left: 6B+B-, 6B-B-, 6B-B-, 6B-B- and 6B-C. The best two grades were put back, but only one implanted and that was either 6B+B+ or 6B+B-. My consultant puts a lot of emphasis on grades so I know he will be negative with what’s left. If I had known my husband’s morphology was significantly better, I would’ve tested them. I had 100% reach blastocyst rate from day 3 due to taking all supplements from Rebecca Fett’s book for a year. I keep wishing I could’ve done more when I was younger but my husband worked a lot of long hours and I had a lot of stress with my teaching jobs. I wish I’d have thought of creating embryos with my husband before getting married at 34 but I had no idea what his morphology was like or even that there would be a problem. But his morphology would have been terrible then. If only I was a lot younger, things would be easier or even just 38 again.

The issue is I didn’t take steroids for slightly high nk cells in blood but had treatment for low nk cells in endometrium. From what I have read, if you take steroids, it can lower nk cells in endometrium further. My baby could’ve died because it was abnormal or due to nk cells. My infection had cleared due to the amount of probiotics I was on and canesbalance. It worked. I had my test results back; for the first time, everything was clear.

I can’t seem to unwatch the pregnancy thread so I will have to keep ignoring it. I don’t think I use the app but just use log in on my phone from safari.

I’m worried that my only one good embryo is gone. Another consultant said that grades are not always a clear indicator but they do affect implantation.

I’m sorry to hear this @Gardenlady543 hope it’s mild and you have no issues 🤞🏼. I must admit I’m still wearing FFP3 in any enclosed/crowded areas. I do get strange looks now. I try to do any socialising outdoors if possible. It’s so hard now most people think “covid is over”.

Hi everyone! Thanks @Janefx40 for adding me to the thread. Am just hoping to get some info…. I’ve just done a vaginal screening at home (no EMMA/ALICE yet) and I’ve got zero lactobacillus (good bacteria?!). I’m a bit at a loss what it means and what I do?!

We’ve had a full on journey so far… MMC, RPOC, ashermans, 5 operations, thin lining, failed FET, now high NKC and I guess thus micro biome thing. Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you !

@Twigg12 I also had zero good bacteria. I took antibiotics prescribed to tackle the bad bacteria then a lot of probiotics - both oral and vaginal. I did a retest and good bacteria had increased to 75%. I kept taking high doses of probiotics up until transfer and that transfer was successful after years of nothing. So I think it’s important to sort it out and with zero I think it’s important to do a retest to see if it’s improving. I did have other things I sorted out that time so I’m not sure if success was down to microbiome fixed or something else!

@2021ivfagain have you considered talking to a counsellor? Things seem to be going round and round in your mind which can’t be good for stress levels and healing. Maybe some CBT would help for grounding in the present (although I know it’s hard). I don’t see any issue with your embryos. My DD was a BB. None of my AA worked and when I did PGS my two best embryos on grading were abnormal and mosaic.

why is it you want to PGS? Is it to decide which one to transfer? You could ask your consultant about transferring two in one go.

Thank you @Dochas12111 ! Could you recommend any specific probiotics you used? So happy to hear you had success!

@Dochas12111 I am seeing a counsellor once a week but it doesn’t seem enough. It’s free and cannot afford to pay out for more. I’m struggling as my life has been hard. My mum is disabled and has been in and out of hospitals a lot. My Dad was critically ill when I got pregnant and nearly died when I was pregnant with my son. He had a massive stroke and now he’s in a nursing home and don’t know if he’ll ever come home. My mum also has serious health issues and is awaiting results for a cancer test.

ivf has affected my marriage as well as the toll of all the stress of my mum and dad’s health issues. There have also been arguments in the family with my mother in law and I am really upset about how my life has turned out. I’m being told that I should be happy with one. My mother in law said he should just have lots of friends. I am happy to have my son but I know what it was like growing up an only child, but that was 1980s so things may be different now.

My husband is really fed up with IVF and wanted to stop months ago. If my clinic had not messed me around, things would have been much easier.

I did not PGS as historically due to husband’s morphology it has always been a huge drop off. Cruelly, at 40 he had been on supplements from Rebecca Fett for a year and diet was better that his morphology was good. If I had known we would have had more, I would have PGS tested. Now it’s too late to PGS as they have been frozen twice already.

@Gardenlady543 I really hope you feel better soon. I get so nervous at winter time when people don’t seem to take covid or flu seriously. I still wear a mask to my clinic. There was one nurse last year who said she was testing fir covid every day as she felt ill. Luckily, I didn’t get her virus but she didn’t want to wear a mask. Now I ask every nurse to wear a mask.

@Dochas12111 I had a double transfer last time due to age when I created embryos. I was 40 but had good amh then. I also had double transfer at 38 when I got pregnant with my son. I only had two blastocysts left due to morphology not being so good. Had 6B+B+ and 6B-B- put back at 38; both implanted but only one stuck which was my son. My consultant always maintains it was the higher grade that stuck then.

@Gardenlady543 I hope your better soon! It does seem to be on the rise and I’m a little worried too.

Ive just had my lining scan and that area is still there. Looks pretty big. Maybe bigger than last time. It has no colour flow to it. Likely to be behind or infront but not in the cavity as I’ve had it checked twice by two different surgereons but I’m just worried about my transfer now. I just think what’s the point because if it’s that which is causing implantation failure why am I still putting myself through the heartbreak and financial costs. :( I’ve had a lap. 2 hysterscopy. I just don’t know what else I can do.

Thanks @Enfys23 and @2021ivfagain for letting me know about modified natural fet.

I wrote a big reply for you @2021ivfagain and then managed to lose it. I'm sorry things are so tough. We can all look back and think what we could've done differently, but it really is a hole that once you're in, there's no benefit. I look back and think why didn't my husband propose to me years earlier, I could've shifted these last five years earlier in my life. But nothing can change as a result of thinking like that. if you aren't going to do egg retrieval's for whatever reason cost, life situation etc. then there really is no point in testing the embryos which may not survive the thaw, may get damaged or come back with inconclusive or mosaic results. What if you looked at it at five separate FET chances? I know you mentioned about finances right now but you could put a long-term plan in place that you want to do the individual transfers over time. Because your age at transfer doesn't really matter. Could look back on doing five more transfers and know that you've done everything possible? Not much is known about the immune stuff by the way, I had normal and low Nk cells in the uterus, but high in the blood and took a immune protocol.

@Enfys23 this is very sensible, I used to do this but haven't for a long time now, I saw nobody in a mask either.

@Twigg12 someone I've had similar issues to you 2 x 0% lactobacillus on EMMA, ashermans syndrome surgery with adhesions at the internal os, always struggles with thin lining but did best with a natural modified cycle where I took low dose stims.I have high nk cells in my blood so did an immune protocol. I also needed open fibroid surgery last year, I started IVF in 2020 and I'm currently 20 weeks. I wrote a post about the microbiome here: reddit.com/r/infertility/s/nXBN9dZ0EB the best vaginal probiotics come from USA: flora femme and vagibiom. I used a daily vaginal probiotic in my FET too.

@Loz2467 I don't think there is anything else you can do really, I've heard doctors in Greece are quite advanced with minimally invasive robotic surgery, you could get a second opinion from there?

I am in a virtual Covid ward now, a motorcycle driver came out with a sats monitor and thermometer and I've been told to take regular readings. Feeling very unwell still and just trying to rest.

@Summerishere83 sorry missed this. I don’t think the evidence is great for ERA. I did it but then ended up doing natural cycle FET so didn’t use the result or repeat the test. I haven’t had success yet so can’t comment. I think most clinics do it now. I paid £1700 for ERA/EMMA/ALICE combined.

@Twigg12 welcome. Sorry you’ve had such a rough time. You’ll definitely fit in here 🥴

@Gardenlady543 really hope you pick up soon!

@2021ivfagain I am now an only child though didn’t start out that way as my only sib died young. My friends are now hugely important in my life. It is a sadness for me though that besides potentially never having kids myself I will also never have nephews or nieces. You can’t guarantee your child has a sibling whatever you do. Don’t let that be your focus. Be honest with yourself about who you’re doing this for. I agree with @Gardenlady543 that no point dwelling on what ifs and the past. It’s not helpful or productive for anyone. You have 5 embryos in the freezer which is a great potential.