ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

@Gardenlady543 yeah that totally makes sense to be honest. I’ve read that adenomyosis causes implantation failure due to the proteins etc in the uterine lining but I don’t know how else that can be treated apart from the down Reg. I’ve seen in the US they use letrozole because it’s meant to help beta 3 intergin and the receptivity but my dr shut me down and said it’s only used for ovulation induction which I know isn’t true! I just didn’t get a good feel and I’m thinking I’ll do surgery and in the meantime I need to research what improves receptivity of lining in adeno.

@Loz2467 it looks like there are a lot of adenomyosis support groups on FB, can you join them and have a search through? The specific FB groups I've joined have been really helpful.

@Gardenlady543 So sorry to hear about the issues you’ve had at work. People can be so insensitive and make business decisions that aren’t always made with the best rationale. I hope you’re able to destress now

@ChickenT2b I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had a tough time. I hope you were able to speak to your husband and tell him how you felt. It’s so important to feel fully supported during this journey.

@Loz2467 Hope the laparoscopy and hysteroscopy go well and give you some answers

I had light bleeding two weeks after my cancelled FET cycle and then a week after that, I thought I had symptoms of BV (not sure though). A day later I had light bleeding again. It must be from the overstimulation of gonal f and all the enlarged follicles. I am due to go in for a scan next week to start my next FET but have a feeling it’s too soon. I am now concerned about BV. The test I have says I should not test if I am bleeding. Any recommendations? I’ve got Optibac intimate flora in my drawer but have never touched it.

@Spin101 as in a pH test, I mean you can test it, if it's acidic with blood around then you can be quite confident with the result. If it's high then it could be the bleeding or BV, as mensural fluid has a higher pH. Your other option is a vaginal swab with your gp. If you had enlarged follicles then you could have bled as they ovulated, my friend has premature ovulation before a collection and had pain and bleeding when this happened. Are they doing a baseline scan before you start the meds?

@Spin101 oh and optibac for women is an oral probiotic, you should take this daily.

@Gardenlady543 What made you stop the vaginal probiotics the day of and day before transfer? Also, did your friend take vagibiom every day including transfer day as she had recurring BV or other infections? Sorry for the questions.

I’m starting to get scared as my baseline scan is next week and I email the consultant’s secretary but getting very delayed responses about advice.

Sounds an awful situation @Gardenlady543 I can’t believe they’ve seen it as acceptable to cause you this stress at this point in time knowing what’s going on for you. I really hope you can relax a bit from it now. It must be so scary for you. Is next scan tomorrow?

@2021ivfagain I think they tend to advise to avoid any vaginal application around the transfer so that you’re not tracking things in with the transfer catheter?

@Loz2467 seems it’s the right step now to focus on the surgery and hopefully this gives some answers.

@ChickenT2b I’m so sorry to hear about the situation. I have found my usually wonderfully supportive DH has done a few things which have upset me and when I’ve sat him down (or I once messaged him as couldn’t do it in person without breaking down into tears and making no sense 😳) and told him how it’s made me feel, he’s been unreserved apologetic and just didn’t comprehend what he was doing was upsetting to me until then. I think we’ve got to remember they cannot read minds and don’t always know the best way to support us. It’s so much harder for us than them going through this. I hope you can try to find a way to tell him and he sees what the issue is. Sending hugs 🤗

I can’t give any better advice than you’ve already had @kerrym87 @BewilderedBee @clhiu thinking of you all

@Enfys23 How are you getting on? I felt really stressed this week with my clinic. I emailed my latest swab result from GP which they did not acknowledge and my consultant is absent at present, so the Secretary is asking another consultant to answer my questions who has no history of my problems etc. In fact, the other consultant also did not acknowledge that I’m on vaginal clindamycin and changed my vaginal probiotic treatment protocol without the permission of my own consultant. In other words, they said to maintain your microbiome you can just take a probiotic vaginally twice a week and then stop 5 days before transfer. My own consultant said to take a probiotic daily until 2 days before then restart a day after transfer. Also, they didn’t really agree or want to get involved with what my gynaecologist suggested!

Also, for anyone who has used vaginal clindamycin my last dose looks like it won’t be enough. I have to empty it from a tube and transfer to individual applicators. I might have used slightly too much the first night, but not I’m worried it won’t be a full applicator measure tonight. Should I order more?

@Gardenlady543 I hope your week was not too difficult at work.I hope you can find some time away to escape and do nice things. Do you have a scan coming up?

@2021ivfagain I’m sorry the clinic aren’t more supportive especially given you’ve gone and paid separately for specialist opinion (I may recall incorrectly but didn’t they say you’d need to do that as they couldn’t advise?)

I'm doing okay thanks. Had my nurse appointment end of this week and about to start norethisterone on Tuesday. I tested my testosterone level nearly 2 weeks ago now and it’s gone a bit high so I’ve dropped the dhea dose and will repeat the test this coming week. Also going to check my AMH. I’m feeling happier I do finally have a baseline scan with the clinic post norethisterone bleed, and I’ve booked a day 5 scan myself at another clinic for ultrasound scans just to check progress and decide when to start antagonist.

@2021ivfagain I didn't decide for any reason really, it was just I stopped before transfer and my pH went high during the chemical. And so I wanted to carry on but thought I didn't want to artificially change the pH during implantation. Yes the person took vagibiom every day. Good luck with the baseline scan. Yep scan is tomorrow morning. I'm a bit freaked out about some weird looking thick discharge especially after my really stressful week.

@Enfys23 sounds like you're moving forward very soon.

Thinking of you with your surgery soon @Loz2467

@Gardenlady543 I might take vagibiom if I am dry a week after transfer to avoid implantation stage. Good luck for tomorrow’s scan. I’m sorry you’re having all this stress. Can you plan a short break away somewhere in the U.K.?

Discharge can be normal in pregnancy as you obviously know. I remember having some when I was pregnant, but it never felt uncomfortable. I know you’re the expert on all of this, but could you do two probiotics a day? Also, I’m taking two strong oral probiotics a day which are safe in pregnancy. I take two a day. They are Nature’s Plus Pro Bio Women https://www.amazon.co.uk/NaturesPlus-NUTRA-Pro-Bio-WOMEN-Prebiotics/dp/B07Q9FDMF3
They contain a lot of lactobacillus but I have had to take two a day.

@Enfys23 I’m pleased you have scans in place. It’s what you deserve to be honest. I’m at the end of norethisterone so about a month behind you. I took norethesterone for longer due to antibiotic etc. My baseline scan should be next week. I’ve also booked acupuncture again for Monday as feeling really stressed. I’m on dhea but it doesn’t seem to do so much for me but never on it for more than a month as I take 75mg a day.

@Enfys23 Yes. You’re right. My clinic wanted me to seek a gynaecologist for further advice which they would then consider, but my own consultant is absent! The other consultant is disregarding it! It’s all a mess but I’m so pleased I have you all for help and advice.

Thank you @Gardenlady543 @2021ivfagain

Thinking of you this morning @Gardenlady543 💕

Hi all
hope ur well
@Gardenlady543 best of luck for ur scan!!
from my end unfortunately bfn 9dp5dt :( im losing hope, but i kind of expected that after they told me just before the transfer about my embryo

have been taking oral optibac everyday but stopped canesflor before transfer, my oh was ok until yesterday where it is less then 4.7. I wonder if i have messed up by non continuing vaginal probio but my dr was against that:(

not sure what to do next as i have on euploid left..
im thinking :

• do fertilysis althought after 3 emma alice my infection cleared up but still had ultralow microbiome
• maybe the nk cells which was not prioritised before (ive had so far 1 successful fet , 1 mc although euplois, 2 failed fet/no implantation..)
• do i need to consider immunology? If yes where?

any advice pls?

thanks

@2021ivfagain I'm not sure about time away, I kind of want to save the leave but I'm worried what will happen this week, so I may have to :( . The midwife said she would write a letter if needed. The discharge was solid and sticky like mucus, but I don't know, I woke up all night having nightmares I was bleeding (which I haven't at all), I did that thing where I woke up in panic and then realised it wasn't real, but over and over.

@Mybabydream I'm sorry :( so the successful FET was that a first child? Then since then you have had 3 euploid transfers with 1 loss- whenabouts was the loss? And 2 negatives?

I'm not sure about the use of another micirobiome test if you have done 3 already, if your pH is ok then you are hopefully good. I have done daily vaginal probiotics though, so maybe you could do that next time? If you go down the immunology route you need to be seen by a reproductive immunologist. Most people in the UK see Dr Gorgy, you can send the results you've had across and the first consultation will be over zoom, he will likely want you to have more immune tests but will let you pick and choose what you're happy with. If your clinic don't want to prescribe the protocol he puts you on then he will. My friend did this and didn't tell her clinic as they are very anti-immune stuff.

Thanks @Gardenlady543
yes so had 5 euploids

1 st was successful end 2020, had emergency c section so had to eait 1yr before reconsidering

2nd fet may 2022- loss in june at about 6 weeks , baby wasnt growing and no heartbeat

3rd end aug 2022 - no implantation

thats when emma era alice was suggested and had 3 from 2022 till earlier this year

and now transfer 10days ago ..

@Mybabydream that's 4 embryos though isn't it? Was one a double? They were all euploid is that right? I think you should book a consultation in with Dr Gorgy and see what he says. What was the NK test was it a biopsy of blood?

@Gardenlady543 yes 4 embryo transferred to date , one remaining. All euploid
didnt do natural killers yet. Is nk part of immuno as my clinic proposed it but was not recommended . I guess that might be next? Is this what dr gorgy does or some other test too?

@Gardenlady543 So sorry you were having nightmares last night :( I hope your scan goes well and provides you with reassurance.

I have a scan tomorrow to get started on a medicated cycle. The only change this time is patches are being added in from day 1.

I managed to find a fertility acupuncturist who does moxibustion. I may have asked you this already. Can you remind me if you took any Chinese herbs at all? (I personally don’t want to).

@Gardenlady543 I’m sorry you’re having nightmares. When I was pregnant with my son, I had terrible nightmares too. In fact, I had to be careful about watching TV. Sometimes TV too close to bedtime would cause really bad dreams as you’re describing. I was fine too.

What made things easier for me was it was during the pandemic so I was forced to work from home. I think even going away for a few days in the U.K. might help. I’ve been so stressed with everything and IVF has affected my relationship with my husband and my mum and dad’s care issues have taken their toll on my mental health. I will have to make up an excuse and take a week off after transfer.

Are you doing acupuncture at present? That might help with anxiety.

Is the discharge uncomfortable? I had thick discharge in pregnancy. Good luck with your scan. Is it today?

@Mybabydream yes Dr Gorgy looks into immune stuff. He will likely want an immune blood panel, biopsy, thrombophilia screen and autoantibody screen. If you have had any of these tests done he likely won't make you repeat. This is what I had in each part:

Autoantibody screen

• Thyroid peroxidase
• ANA
• Mitochondrial antibodies
• Smooth muscle antibodies
• Gastric parietal
• LKM
• Anticardiolipin IgG and IgM
• Beta 2 glycoprof igG and IgM

Thrombophilia screen

• PT
• INR
• APTT
• Fibrinogen
• Antithrombin II
• Protein C
• Free protein S antigen
• PAI-1 4G/5G
• MTHFR

Endometrial biopsies

• NK activity

Reproductive immunology bloods

• NK cell profile
• NK cytotoxic assay
• Th1/Th2 assay
• Leukocyte antibody detection
• HLA DQA1 typing
• KIR

@Spin101 no I didn't take any Chinese herbs, my clinic said they can interact with things. Will your acupuncturist do a session pre and post transfer like mine did?

@2021ivfagain no, it's not uncomfortably, no symptoms and it didn't smell of anything. I think maybe it was the gunk from the probiotic and it dried up in my underwear to the solid consistency. Well I'm hoping that's the case. That's a good idea to take a week off after the transfer, that's what I did this time. My acupuncturist doesn't like to do stuff in pregnancy, she was going to put in some anti anxiety war spikes but she was ill and I didn't want to pick up an infection.

Thanks for being so sweet everyone when I'm moaning about work stress and nightmares! Scan is in 1.5 hours, really hoping it goes well so I can have a nice ending to this week.

Right scan was fine so I can stop panicking now! Well until next week. It's here if anyone wants to see imgur.com/a/81m8IJV

Awww congratulations!

@Gardenlady543 amazing congrats!!! So happy for uu