ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

@Gardenlady543 Yes. I would be taking the cyclogest rectally. I just know that norethisterone orally raises my ph so much, but now I take canesbalance and lakcid intima or Flora Femme things have been better. In fact, I believe they have made the difference. I’m just worried that due to my high fsh , which raises ph anyway, that cyclogest and lubion will raise vaginal ph in the same way norethisterone does. I know pregnancy raises ph, but due to my lack of oestrogen, it raises it to a ridiculous level unless I am on probiotics and canesbalance. Also, I don’t know if I will be given additional estradiol after transfer. My consultant is not very keen. It’s strange as in a fresh transfer when my oestrogen was higher 3 years ago I was given 2mg 3 times a day for 2 weeks. Then I stopped at pregnancy test. I think I should be given same this time to accommodate for lack of oestrogen.

I took a lot of zumenon this month as I took norethisterone for maximum time and I think that is why my symptoms have gone. I also took dhea, omega 3, wheatgrass and ubiquinol to really boost oestrogen.

The issue is when I took my swab my symptoms were still there slightly, so I am worried that I will still need to take antibiotics. I am now symptom free. I have emailed my gynaecologist who I think is getting fed up with my emails! 😳I don’t know what to do if my swab results show the remains of the infection but I feel symptom free now??

I wish I could take lakcid Intima after transfer as it has two good stains: lactobacillus gasseri and lactobacillus rhamnosus. However, it says to be careful about using it in pregnancy.

Thanks @2021ivfagain . Did you know covid impacted your fertility because you retested your AMH, FSH and husband sperm including DNA frag or simply because of the result of your next ivf round? How long after having covid was the round and did you both have it or just yourself or him?
By the way my AMH and FSH were good a year ago, 14.9 and 6.8 respectively in follicular phase, but my FSH hasn’t been tested since and I retested my AMH for my own sake at the end of March so less than a year from the previous test and it dropped down to 7.8 so almost halved, which suggests things may be falling off a cliff.
I’m already taking every supplement under the sun except for DHEA, which may not be right for me anyway as my estradiol levels are good and my cycle is regular so I wouldn’t want it to throw other things off kilter, but I am planning to ask in my consultation with CRP.
Unless we find out that we cannot get pregnant with timed intercourse anymore, the only reason to do IVF would be to do more PGT-A testing which we absolutely cannot afford at least till the autumn and even then I think a single round wouldn’t be enough, I would want to do at least 2 back to back egg collections, but I’m not sure it feels right at this time throwing more money into IVF.
My current plan is to see this reproductive immunologist to get a second opinion first of all, to rule out any immune issues that may be at play and also to enquiry about how some immune treatments may actually help improve egg quality such as PRP and a couple of other things I read about in the book ‘is your body baby friendly’. A consultation with them and even some treatment would be a fraction of the cost than more IVF with PGS so depending on what they say and what treatment they recommend we’re just going to go back trying naturally and see what happens. I think I probably have 3 more MCs in me before throwing in the towel completely or throwing more money into IVF, but before going at it blindly I’d like this second opinion. I’m open to trying naturally with Letrozole, the logic being if I produce 2-3 eggs in one cycle there’s better odds of at least one resulting in euploid. But that’s about as far as we’ll go for now.

@clhiu My amh was last tested August 2021 when it was 16 and fsh was 6.7. I was 40 then. My fsh started to get bad December 2021 but I was under a huge amount of stress as I thought my Dad was having another stroke that month. I got covid as my husband got it from work March 2022. April 2022 was one of my worst cycles. Egg quantity did not decrease much but egg quality was bad in spite of oestrogen priming. My husband’s morphology went from 4% to 1% and my consultant tried to tell us to improve his diet!! It was the same: the only difference is covid. I do feel after getting covid my fsh started to get much worse but that might just be an age thing. I was also on the flare protocol which did us no favours.

I have so much regret but if I were you with your amh and fsh I would do a mild IVF cycle. You can do it through Access and save lots of money. You could also opt for fresh or frozen transfers and still do PGS testing; you cannot batch with access. Batching never did me any favours.

7.8 is still not too bad. I haven’t a clue what mine is. I just pray each month I still have periods. This month my period was delayed by an extra day but I had taken a lot of dhea, wheatgrass, omega 3 and zumenon and I was in a state about it. I feel as though I don’t have much longer left. It’s strange as my mum had fibroids which indicates high amh but she had a hysterectomy at 47. I’m only nearly 42.

You have to do what is right. I’ve never been pregnant naturally due to male factor infertility. I have a 2.5 year old son which I am grateful for via IVF IMSI. Did you do IMSI? Do you have male factor issues? If not, that makes things easier.

You could try naturally especially if you have been successful before. You could also have a free consultation with Serum. They cater for immune testing/treatment and my friend who had low amh and high nk cells had a success with them. She was nearly 44. She had two day 3 embryos transferred. She has a one year old daughter.

Thank you @2021ivfagain it helps havjng the perspective of someone who did ivf after both having covid.
In reality we probably have to give it a couple months anyway before I have this consultation and we get any test results. If they can recommend any treatment for egg quality that may take a few weeks.
I know eggs and sperm to take months to mature, but I’m worried if we wait that long I’ll be past the 43.5 mark.
I have looked into Access multiple times and if you’re over 42 all they offer is a 3 cycle fresh transfer package that’s it. If I can get pregnant I don’t really need a fresh cycle I just need to be able to PGS test and freeeze otherwise I may just keep going naturally, maybe with some autoimmune support and super ovulation to make me produce a couple more eggs.
We have no known male factor, is dna fragmentation test after the first 3 losses came back clear and all his other parameters were very good. Our consultant still recommended IMSI to reduce risks even further so we did that anyway, which added almost another 3k to the cycle alone. If we did another round I’d be tempted to sack that component off and just redo his tests if they come back fine. Although there’s another reason why she recommended it, that is low quality eggs are more passibile to be fertilised by more than one sperm at the time which can lead to triploidy and tetraploidy - abnormalities missed by PGTA testing and that we already had one confirmed issue of so I don’t know that we could forego that bit.
So far my cycles continue to be very regular, even after each miscarriage, surgery, Norethisterone and IVF meds so I guess that’s a positive I can look to.
Thanks for the advice on Serum, just going to look into PCR have to say than take it from there, they may honestly tell me I’m a lost cause.

Glad to hear your symptoms of atpbopium have subsided, but I get the worry about it still being there. Getting everything perfect is so so hard, but nobody wants to go into the next attempt without knowing everything’s fine. I hope for you this time it’s gone 🤞🤞🤞

@clhiu The Access Fertility package is a two cycle package for over 40. It offers fresh or frozen as I did it at 38 but also looked into it when I was 40. I only hesitated as I wanted to do batching which they don’t do. They also cover PGS testing for a separate cost.

No. It’s not there but it might have been when I did the swab. I’m not symptom free but has remains of it when I did the swab but due to the tight time frame I had no option. However, if you were symptom free, would you go on antibiotics if you know you have improved since taking the swab?

Also, if you are trying naturally, would you ever try doing a fresh cycle? My embryos will not be tested but if pregnant I will do a nipt test. I did my cycle at 40 but it was my only good cycle. I had 9 eggs, 8 mature, 7 fertilised and frozen at day 3. I have three 8 cell and rest are 6-7 cell. Out of those 8 cell, two are top grade. I’m hoping they make good blastocysts as this is it for me. I can’t try naturally.

I’ve just read from Access about unlimited frozen transfers.

“The original IVF Multi-Cycle Programme that we offer is available to anyone under the age of 45, and you can undergo two fresh cycles of IVF with unlimited frozen embryo transfers. With this programme, you receive a significant upfront saving compared to standard IVF costs. We want to make your IVF journey as stress-free as possible, which is why we offer a chance to fix the cost of your fertility treatment.”

Lots of super helpful information @2021ivfagain. I’ll reach out to Access again as I had their CRGH package sent and spoke to them just before starting my cycle in October last year and what I wanted to do definitely wasn’t an option on there, but perhaps I missed something or things have changed.

Absolutely if I ever get pregnant again regardless of how (even from a confirmed euploid embryo) and we make it to 10 weeks I would do NIPT, we were in fact planning that with our 4th pregnancy, but unfortunately the 8 week scan revealed the baby stopped growing already.

Yeah I totally get the pickle you’re in with the antibiotic and the microbiome issues at the same time, I wish I knew what I would do, but unfortunately I do not. Hopefully someone with a similar experience or better medical knowledge than me on this thread can provide a pointer or some reassurance x

@clhiu I think your plan sound good, I'm pretty sure ITBBF mentions about patients having the immune treatment and a lot going on to try for 3 months and getting success.

@2021ivfagain let us know when the swab result comes back, is it due any time now?

I had my long day of immune treatment yesterday which cost £££. I had IvIg and LIT.

How's everyone doing? Any big appointments or procedures coming up for anyone?

@Gardenlady543 Thank you. I am expecting it on 24th May but I am worried that as I still had some symptoms then it will not reflect now. I am feeling much better now. I had to do the test nearly 3 weeks ago, so I might have had a residue of the infection. I have had to order one lot of vaginal metronidazole and one vaginal clindamycin just in case. My gynaecologist wants me to take clindamycin if the result is positive but I don’t want to if I can feel things are better now. I think norethisterone and high fsh triggers it so if that is the case I am going to get it more if I wipe everything out with no protection at all. It’s especially hard for me to build up lactobacillus again if my amh is low and fsh is high.

If you had a massive improvement on the test and no symptoms now, would you take vaginal metronidazole, nothing or vaginal clindamycin?

Oh ivig is expensive. I was advised to have it but it’s so expensive I just do not have the money. My nk cells in the blood are only slightly high and most are normal. Good luck with that. It’s good they have a plan for you.

I have booked my blood tests with my nurse at the GP surgery which is good but hoping my clinic will accept the results! I know last time the nhs refused to do a full thyroid profile test without my GP’s authorisation, so I had to go to my IVF clinic but I can’t afford it now. The clinic said if they don’t receive these test results on time my cycle will be delayed as I won’t be able to start.

@2021ivfagain I get my thyroid function tests done with medichecks, it's likely cheaper to do it that way than your clinic, although you'd need to pay for the bloods draw that is about £30. I think wait to see what the results show first, because it's hard to know. If you feel better then that's a good sign.

Hi everyone, I had my egg collection this morning. Cycle #14, OMG. Eight mature eggs so fairly happy with that (for my age). My consultant wanted to trigger on Monday but I pushed it out to Weds as know my body /response very well by now and how to maximise eggs. I would’ve got 4, maybe 5 mature eggs at best if I had followed clinic’s advice. Reckon I can squeeze in three more cycles this year if need be. It’s pretty draining but now I’m in the zone of one every two months, I’ll carry on. Feeling pretty tired/delicate at the minute so will rest up for the afternoon.

@Gardenlady543 so pleased that things are looking good on many fronts but understand the nerves will still be there. Good you went for IVIG and LIT as you’ve come so far this time. I don’t know anyone who’s spent as much as me but you’ve surpassed it (just!), I think. I’m really rooting for you and for your next scan.

@clhiu @ChickenT2b @kerrym87 youve all got decisions to make regarding future treatment by the sounds of it. Hope you come to the right calls that you’re comfortable with. There’s so much to weigh up. I’d say crack on as much as you can.

@2021ivfagain you sound much more positive than I’ve heard you in a long time so delighted to read this and that your symptoms are mainly at bay.

I had my consult with Juno following my last Vaginal microbiome test. They left it up to me whether to try more antibiotics to lower /get rid of strep b or just try to build up my lactobacillus further and hopefully reduce it that way. Think I’ll try latter for a bit. Lacto currently 50%, I told you 38% in a previous message mistakenly but that’s just the Gasseri. I ordered Balance Activ to lower ph further (Gasseri has a slightly higher pH than crispatus) so will alternate one of these with a Good Clean Love every week and re-test in a month or two. I doubt my GP will prescribe antibiotics for strep B, given it’s normally present in 30% of women. My level is fairly high however, ~37%. Tested my pH during stims and it was lowest in a while at 4.1 but perhaps stims skewed it…

Hi ladies, sorry I’ve been MIA. Had some time away prior to starting my next FET cycle. I went in for a scan after 5 injections of 150IU Gonal-f every other day. They were expecting to see 1-3 enlarged follicles and they saw 20. I’ve always had thin lining. Lining was 4.3mm at most for this cycle and not trilaminar, so they’ve had to cancel the cycle. They said it looked like I was going for EC when they did the scan. Next plan is to go back to medicated (Progynova and patches). Lining only got to 4mm last time on the medicated protocol so not sure I’m expecting much of change moving forwards. I was recommended to start my research into surrogacy too. I’m yet to go private so hoping there will be more options.

Sorry to jump back in guys and been absent during the week. I’ve had a stressful work visit and haven’t had a minute.

Latest situation is I’ve got an appointment with the surgeon I was originally refferred by 18 months ago. He was the first person I spoke to at my fertility clinic and he said any bleeding outside of your period needs to be investigated. So I get to see him on 5th June. So I’ve started making my list of questions. I think my surgery date might be the 13th June which falls on the same day as my consultant review at care! So I need to change that. My consultant is on holiday and I don’t want to feel like I’m going behind her back but the laproscopy has always been on the cards and she knows that.

Im thinking for my next FET to ask for the doxy, clexane and pred like @Gardenlady543 suggested.

Also my original referral from this dr who will do my surgery said laparoscopy, hystereoscopy and a biopsy so I’m going to make sure I get all this?

I feel like I need to do this for peace of mind. My periods have changed since my loss. Texture. Amount and the spotting etc. plus my infertility has only started after my miscarriage too so something has definitely happened plus 2 failed transfers now.

Im just hoping the cause isn’t that area and something can be done to help me be successful. Xx

@Loz2467 I meant to tag you in my previous message. That’s good you have this appt soon right? Sorry you’ve had to wait so long for it. I’ve never had a lap or hysteroscopy so can’t really comment. But it definitely sounds like the right thing to do as your spotting has been a mystery for a long time. I hope they can decipher it.

@Spin101 that must be really disappointing to have to cancel. Were the 20 follicles large? Strange that your lining wasn’t thicker if those follicles were ready for EC. Did they take your estradiol? How did you feel about them mentioning surrogacy?

@CailinInUK they were >10mm with 5 >17mm. They didn’t check my estradiol unfortunately. During my EC it was high and I still had thin lining. They’ve mentioned surrogacy to me before when I pushed for what if this doesn’t happen so it wasn’t a shock to me. However I’ve just had the one NHS cycle, with one failed transfer and this abandoned cycle. Therefore I’m hoping I can explore other routes. Any success stories in this thread with thin lining?

Hi everyone been having a bit of a tough time, I hadn't mentioned on here but we had pursued surrogacy and both me and the surrogate got pregnant at the same time but we got some awful news yesterday and it looks like the surrogate is miscarrying, her beta has dropped and she had blood vaginal discharge, they got her in for a scan and she is measuring at 6 weeks (she is 6 weeks), there isn't much hope with the dropped beta though, she is at 2700 when they would expect 11000 and I've been told to expect bad news when they check her again on Monday. Trying to block it all out because I ended up crying all evening last night, which is not going to help my own situation. Not much new with me, symptoms come and go, no bleeding or anything so hoping this is a good sign.

@CailinInUK fantastic news, yes rest up, relax, take in nice and easy and have a chilled out weekend. That's a good pH but like you say loads going on with stims. You've just had a needle through the vaginal wall so try and avoid putting things in if you can. Are you doing banking right now rather than any transfers planned?

Hi @Spin101 remind me of your history with thin lining what tests have you done and what have you done treatment wise? My recent cycle I did well with natural modified on low dose stims.

@Loz2467 I think it's great this surgeon is on board, will it be a lap or lap + hysteroscopy, so hoping you get answers ❤️ and that's good you're thinking ahead of add ons, could you see Dr Gorgy, he will prescribe the immune treatment and you can then do your standard treatment with your clinic and have this as an add on?

For those mentioning surrogacy, I've been pursuing this now since late 2021 so do feel free to DM me. It hasn't been a easy journey, it is incredibly expensive and stressful, we have had cancelled cycles, unsuccessful cycles, as well as what is currently looking like a miscarriage, add in a lack of control and distance.

@Gardenlady543 I’m really sorry. I don’t know what to say. It’s awful you are hearing this bad news. You are so strong and you’ve got through so much already, but this must be really difficult for you.

@Gardenlady543 oh no! I am so so sorry to hear what’s happening, it’s an awful experience to go through. I really don’t know what else to say other than that and I am thinking of you X

I’m really sorry to hear this x

@Gardenlady543 I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. Praying for a miracle for Monday but I appreciate the worrying situation. Whatever you’re feeling is ok, it won’t damage your precious and embryo.
You really deserve a breakthrough, I hope the world sets things straight xxx

@Spin101 I've heard of sildenafil/viagra helping with lining in some people, qomder if it would be worth asking clinic? It's so hard when things dint go to plan, it's crap enough as it is x

@Gardenlady543 I'm so sorry ti hear that, its been an awful journey so far for you x

@CailinInUK you are so bloody strong and kind to ask after others despite what you’re going through. Yep, I won’t put anything up there until after period to reduce infection risk etc. Period typically comes 11 days after EC so 9 days to go.
I’d really love to be in a position to bank but reckon I’ll be fortunate to get even one to transfer. I’m 44 and also got PGT-M to pass so it’s gonna be hard. But yes, sensible thing is to try get two in the freezer. Here’s hoping.

I had a fertilisation update today. Surprisingly, 100% fertilisation with Zymot and ICSI, so eight embryos in the running. I’ve had 67% for the last three cycles, never had a 100% in my previous 13 cycles.

@Gardenlady543 last message was for you, not myself 🙄

@Gardenlady543 I’m am so sorry😢 That’s heartbreaking. I appreciate no words will take away the pain and worry. Please be kind to yourself xx

I hope the rest of you ladies are well.

@Gardenlady543 First FET was medicated - 8mg of Progynova a day and 50mcg patches were added after 12 days or so. Lining only got to 4mm but I still went ahead with the transfer on the consultant’s guidance. I had a scratch before starting Progynova

This cycle was 150IU Gonal-f every other day and I obviously over responded in terms of enlarged follicles but the lining only got to 4.3mm.

I had a lap and a hysteroscopy last year. It’s likely I have one blocked tube but they weren’t able to confirm.

@kerrym87 I haven’t tried viagra yet. I think that should be considered as a next step. The NHS don’t offer it as far as I’m aware. I want to go private but trying to work out which clinic has the most experience with thin lining is not straight forward.