Embryo batching with PGS testing

[2021ivfagain]

Hello. I thought I’d start a new thread. It seems like the old one has been closed.

It’s been really good to share advice and experiences when going through the ups and downs of embryo batching.

Hi All,

Its looking like potentially another disappointing round for us. Last round we only had 4 mature eggs (as I didn’t respond so well to the stims) 2 fertilised and ended up with 1 day 6 blastocyst. Dr Ramsey said that 50% of embryos getting from day 3 to 5 was really positive even though we only had 2 embryos to start with so I had high hopes for maybe a 50% survival rate from day 3 to 5 this time around.

We had a great number of eggs this time around having tweaked my protocol and there were 11 in the running on day 3 with 2 being a bit behind. In my head I was thinking 9 good embryos could give us at least 4 embryos on day 5 but we only have two and only one is good quality. Apparently the rest are still in the running but are slow developers and a couple are early blastocysts. If we don’t get a couple more tomorrow I will be completely devastated. I know we should be grateful for what we have (6 embryos from 3 rounds) but after PGTA testing I’m worried we won’t have enough embryos to ever get to live birth as I most likely have some kind of autoimmune issues which could mean several more miscarriages and drug experimentation/treatments in order to get there.

It’s also bringing up old resentment towards my OH for not giving up smoking until January this year. And also for not taking the additional
supplement Dr R recommended 3 months ago. I feel like circumstances may now force me to do another round which I don’t want to do but will probably always regret if I don’t.

Sorry for the self absorbed and rather long rant but I’m so fed up of IVF & I know many of you will understand.

@InvisibleDreamer

Hi. I’m sorry you’re feeling like this. I completely understand. You want to everything possible. It sounds like you do have good egg quality though and 6 blastocysts from 3 rounds is good. When I was 38, I had two cycles and had 5 blastocysts but it was the second cycle where we had success.

We had more success with IMSI. Is that what you’re doing?

We also had better results after my husband took all of the supplements from the book it starts with the egg. The ones which are really important are Nordic omega 3, ubiquinol 200mg, l’carnitine
and 1000mg vitamin c.

If you’re already making blastocysts, that is positive. I know it’s hard. I’m finding the pressure a lot at present due to my age and money.

I’m really fed up with IVF. It was so much easier when I just did two cycles. Batching seems endless and it’s really difficult.

@InvisibleDreamer oh no totally understand your disappointment and fed up feeling - but have hope that your numbers will suffice. The conversion is actually decent. My consultant said something that resonated with me. She said don’t lose steam and energy. If you want to be a mother you will get there, it may just take a little longer than you had hoped. Not sure I bought into her optimism nor do I think I have much energy left but it was a fair assessment. This is a gruelling experience and keeping at it is the hardest challenge. Fingers crossed you get more tomorrow as you still have some in the running. PGS normals even if day 6 tend to fair well.
i would try and put aside the resentment as we can all do things perfectly and they still end up with a crappy set of results sometime. I realised doing ivf that most of it is luck and the cards we are dealt are usually the ones we would have had anyway. Not meaning to sound too fatalistic, I get we have to help ourselves but we look for reasons when things don’t go as well but it doesn’t help.

for my part I woke up with some clarity this morning. I didn’t sign the crgh forms nor did I start my Northisterone. I will see what ARGC say and then decide. But I reached the conclusion today that if I end up with a genetic child, a donor egg child or no child - each option will be fine in the end. I will embrace my life with any of these outcomes and for my inlaws and other people who want to bring me down I will just leave them to it and not internalise any of the shame, guilt etc. hmm it’s a better day today but let’s see if it lasts lol usually I follow such moments of clarity with some mini breakdown! My covid got a bit worse today with its coughing and blocked nose etc. strangely my period with red clotting returned too and I can’t decide if this is a coincidence or linked with the covid. Hair is falling out a lot too. Covid is a strange illness and not one I want to repeat having. The lack of immunity from omicron isn’t pleasant to think of! But hey we have to live with it as can’t isolate all the time.

@2021ivfagain batching is really gruelling isn’t it. I think I’m most upset about the thought I may have to do another round to try & get more PGTA normals & I really really wanted to be done with it now. unfortunately there were no more blasts for us today (there were 2 but they were too poor quality to freeze both were DD). I forgot to give OH omega 3 this time round but our best round was actually our first when he had only just stopped smoking 2 weeks before & wasn’t on any extra supplements 🤷‍♀️ I think age might be against us now especially as OH turned 40 last autumn. I am annoyed he didn’t take the proceed though, although he did take it occasionally when he remembered. We are doing ICSI rather than IMSI, I’m not sure about doing IMSI & I don’t think our clinic offer it.

@Sarahk20000 I’ve mostly been able to put the resentment to bed but every so often it bubbles to the surface. I think I’m just looking for someone to blame for the unfairness of it all. It gets frustrating that I have to manage all the IVF stuff and my OH just wants to pretend like it’s not happening & can’t even remember to take his supplements. I’m glad you have reached some clarity about your next steps. Covid is horrible but hopefully you will recover soon.

@InvisibleDreamer

I’m sorry you’ve not had more blastocysts. We had more luck with IMSI as it ensures more good quality sperm are used. Icsi is good but if dna fragmentation is not as good or morphology is not as good IMSI is better. I would use IMSI for your next round. It really helped us.

@Sarahk20000

It sounds like you have had a moment of clarity in what you want to do. I admire your thinking.

I’m sorry you’re not feeling well with covid. I had a painful throat with it for several days and then a bad cough but I did get better. You might want to increase your iron levels. I also made sure I was having at least 2000iu of vitamin d if not 3000iu to boost immunity. If you can, take extra vitamin c 500mg.

@Sarahk20000

It’s up to you about vitamin d and iron but I’ve heard both can dip due to covid. Hope you get better soon.

@InvisibleDreamer I totally understand. I have just bought my husband Impryl on my nutritionist advice and he hasn’t touched it! I just feel I can’t control his behaviour and he doesn’t care as much. We have to do his semen analysis again, I hope it’s all ok. i am so sorry there weren’t more viable embryos today. This is all so hard. And I agree with @2021ivfagain you really should consider IMSI. I had much better results for cycles with that.
@2021ivfagain you are right about starting supplements and extra. I already feel so weak even though am on the mend I think. As annoying as I used to find crgh 28 day rules, I don’t think I could even face an egg collection any time soon.
I hope you are doing well and things are progressing nicely.

Hi everyone, I feel completely the same way at the moment. It is such a gruelling process--at the moment I just feel like we only get bad news, and nothing encouraging. It's hard not to lose hope. I like that your consultant is so positive, @Sarahk20000 ! I could use that. After a friend of mine who is having a baby via surrogate had her first failed transfer, her friend (who has had a lot of miscarriages) texted her 'It might take more resources and time than you thought, but you will become a mother. And when you do, it will be completely unfathomable that you could have had any other baby than the one you have.' I loved that. Her surrogate is now pregnant. It's the way I feel about my miscarriages now - if those hadn't happened, we wouldn't have our son. But in the dark times, it's hard to feel any hope.

I got my period early last week (day 19), so CRGH said clearly my body isn't recovered from the FET and we can't start a new cycle this month. It wasn't a normal period - more like spotting and not as heavy - but it was the month after my failed FET so maybe that's normal? I just really hope I don't have anohter weird/short cycle as that would mean more delays.

My husband has his follow up with Dr Ramsay next week, but he got his results. His DNA frag has improved somewhat but it's still not great. He has a lot more healthy sperm (30% vs 10% last time), but the average score has only moved from 49 to 43% or something like that. CRGH also gave him a hyaluronan binding test and the results were very bad. It's just bad news all the time! So we're doing PIMSI as well as IMSI next time - has anyone done that? It looks like he also has ureaplasma and gardenella bacteria, so he'll probably be put on antibiotics. Obviously that's good if that turns out to be the cause of his high DNA frag, but it means we may have to delay another month. Has anyone here's partner been treated with antibiotics? I'm starting to get anxious since I haven't actually had an egg collection since March... it's just endless isn't it?

@InvisibleDreamer what supplement did Dr Ramsay recommend? My husband is on Impryl. I feel like he's also lost some of his motivation in terms of not drinking/being healthy. It's just hard when it stretches out for so long. Sorry you didn't get more blasts this time, but it's encouraging you got so many more eggs - bodes well for the next round (if you're doing one?)

@Lola245

Hi. I’m sorry about the delay. I find going on provera or norethisterone it helps to regulate it and my cycle is then 28 days. Could you try provera next time? I also find my period is heavier with norethisterone so perhaps provera will be the same. The only thing I’m finding is my sleep is not so good lately probably thinking about my tra

@Lola245

I pressed the button too quickly before I could finish the message!

I’m also feeling anxious especially as I have to keep checking mistakes in my prescriptions! For a fresh transfer I was always on progynova 2mg 3 times a day after egg collection but was told no that is for frozen transfer. Then yesterday I was told I was right after all!

I spoke to a friend this week who had success in the Greek clinic after failure in U.K. They don’t do PGS and prefer fresh transfers.

Are you not preparing for your next egg collection this month? I’m sorry about the delays. They are frustrating. I regret not doing a fresh transfer last November but my consultant believes batching was best.

I don’t know much about PISMI. My friend who went to Greece discovered she had an infection and her husband had high dna fragmentation. Before egg retrieval they were both put on doxycycline for two weeks beforehand and then checked to see if it had cleared/improved. It did and they had success but were on a strict diet in the months leading up to retrieval. The antibiotics worked for them. So it could work for your husband. It might be good for your husband to go on a probiotic afterwards but best to get advice.

It’s good you have a plan to use PIMSI. I’ve heard of it but don’t know much about it. From what I can tell it’s even more specialised than IMSI to ensure the best sperm used by adding a solution. Have you looked at the supplements for make fertility from the book It Starts with the egg? There are a list of really good ones that only take 2-3 months to work. I also get my husband to take wheatgrass 15g on empty stomach as it’s good for dna fragmentation and morphology.

Sorry I have been away! I have had one bad round after another.
I have a baseline scan today and I am hoping to start cycle 10!

If you are on instagram you can follow my journey, theeggcollecter is my account name x

@Ivfhoper sorry you’ve had some bad rounds our last two have been disappointing as well.

@Lola245 OH was supposed to take 2 sachets of proceed every day but would only remember to take it when at home if I made it up for him. I doubt he did it when he was working away either. He was still taking the wellman conception multivitamin though. The problem is although I usually get a good number of eggs we tend to loose quite a few during fertilisation & then we have the high drop off from day 3 to 5. The most embryos we have ever had from a round is 3. I know we should count ourselves lucky to get any but we always want more don’t we?! I feel jealous of people who get 7 embryos from one round etc…Will wait and see what our PGTA results are before deciding on another round. I’m tempted to go straight to transfer if we get any ‘normals’ but doing that may mean it’s then too late to do another egg collection of it doesn’t work out.

@2021ivfagain It doesn’t look like there are any clinics in our area offering IMSI or if they do they certainly don’t advertise it on their websites. I will look into again if we decided to go for another round.

Hi everyone,

@2021ivfagain My doctor thought we should avoid NET this time since it can suppress the ovaries. It looks like we're all set to start an egg collection round in two weeks as long as my period doesn't come early... I'm really keeping my fingers crossed. I had a teeny tiny amount of spotting yesterday (day 15) but nothing today. I'm just desperate to start IVF so we can go on holiday afterwards - something we really need but it's impossible to plan. At least that is one way IVF saves you money!

So since a number of you have DNA frag issues: my husband had his follow up with Dr Ramsay last week who was much more positive. He said his improvement was marked (the percentage of good sperm now being nearly a third, rather than a tenth!) and that he was now not that far off from a man of his age (41). He's put us both on antibiotics for the ureaplasma/gardenella which should hopefully help further. And he didn't seem to put that much stock in the HBT test. He also said PIMSI is definitely the way to go. I'm quite annoyed CRGH didn't suggest it for our earlier rounds, but anyway. It's encouraging that lifestyle and supplements can make a difference. He's been taking Impryl, which you can't take alongside too many other things, but also takes omega 3s. We eat really healthfully and he's cut back on drinking alot.

So things are looking up on the sperm side - but now feels like more pressure on me... I just pray my next round is more like my first round, where I got 6 eggs, then the second, where I only got two... But we really felt like we needed SOME good news in this process, and at least on his side, we got something positive.

Hope you're all staying cool!

@Lola245

That’s good news. I’m gearing up for my next cycle. I’ve been on norethisterone and now provera back to back. My amh has lowered but my consultant has not told me to avoid it. Also my fsh is higher than yours. I’m hoping it’s not going to suppress my ovaries too much. My last retrieval was beginning of May but I’m 41 now.

I was really panicking about my period this time as provera caused spotting initially but then I started properly yesterday evening.

It sounds like you have a good plan. Try to take the positives. I know it’s hard. I know what you mean about holidays. I’ve not had a holiday since 2019 as we started our first IVF September 2019 and life has been hard ever since. However, it’s only one small sacrifice.

I think you’ll have more success with the flare. The cycle when you had two eggs was a mild cycle so you will get more next time.

Good luck for your next cycle.

Hi

Has anyone taken provera before? I’ve never taken it but I feel it’s messing up my cycle. I started spotting yesterday and then in the evening it was heavy and this morning extremely heavy. Then it stopped and now I’m spotting again. I’m worried I won’t be able to start this month. Feeling so fed up.

@2021ivfagain I haven't taken provera before - but it's basically the same as norethisterone? I never had any issues with NET. But I feel you on the weird periods and spotting! I'm actually calling CRGH right now because I've had a bit more spotting today - it's very light, and it's dark brown, but I never ever had spotting between periods before. I'm really panicked my period is all messed up since my FET back in late May. I will be so frustrated if I can't start another round this month. I'm only on day 16, so spotting is really weird...

I must say it makes me not want to do a transfer again unless we have a good embryo. I feel like the FET has messed up my body, and the chance of it working was low anyway. Ugh.

@Lola245

Provera is not the same as norethisterone. They are similar but from what I’ve read provera can be more problematic. I’m trying to call CRGH but it’s so busy.

I can’t stop this cycle.

@Lola245

Hi. I’m travelling up for baseline scan. Period has improved but much lighter than normal. From what I’ve read this is really common with provera. I wish I could take norethisterone. Oh well. I’m worried my lining might not be thin enough to start!

Also, I’m starting to get worried about my weight loss which has been unintentional. I’m on a low carb high protein diet for fertility and have cut out bread mostly of the time due to ibs. I do eat really well but can no longer put on weight. I’m now 8 stone 11lbs. I’ve always been around 10 stone. I’m thinner now then ever but look unhealthy. I don’t know what to do. In fact, most of my clothes no longer fit me. I like dark chocolate but it triggers ibs so I’ve had to stop it for awhile.

@InvisibleDreamer

How are you getting on?

@2021ivfagain Hi not too bad was disappointed with our most recent round after Dr Ramsey was so positive about our second round where we had 50% of our day 3 embryos make it (1 day 6 embryo from 2 day 3 embryos) so hopes were high. We had 9 good embryos on day 3 this time so I was really hoping for 3 or 4 on day 5 but ended up with 2 and one of those not very good quality. Waiting now for PGTA results before we make any decisions what to do next. Trying not to think too much about it for now.

How was your round?

@InvisibleDreamer

I’ve not started yet. I’m preparing for fresh transfer, so I should start stimming tonight. My egg retrieval will be end of July. I had my baseline scan today. Cyst has gone and lining is 4.9 on day 2 so that’s ok. I had my fsh tested as I took caprylic acid for a short time but found out after it might have interacted with zumenon. I asked my clinic but they took a long time to get back to me. I didn’t take it long.

I’m waiting to hear if I can start soon. I just want to get to transfer stage.

Good luck with PGT testing. You do have a good amount of blastocysts and you’re younger than me so you’ve got a good chance. Ultimately, it only takes one good embryo.

Hi

I can’t do my cycle this month. I’ve been told that my fsh levels are too high.

My consultant has told me to take a month off and speak to my GP. I still have 9 day 3 embryos frozen.

It’s been such a shock. I think the stress with my Mum and Dad two years ago has aged me and my husband. IVF has become a battle.

CRGH just want me to have a month off but things are now going to be challenging. I’m still in shock. I’m so pleased I have a son but I wanted to have another child and for him to have a sibling.

@Lola245

Hi. How are you getting on? My period did improve a lot on provera but stress levels were extremely high. I feel gutted I had could not go ahead this month. I’m in limbo.

@Lola245 i hope your next round is more successful and you get to an egg collection. It is all so frustrating.
@InvisibleDreamer good luck with your PGTa results. I really hope you get some normals.
@2021ivfagain i am so sorry about your delayed cycle. How are you getting on?

I am really struggling with motivation for ivf these days. I have my ARGC appointment tomorrow even though CRGH still haven’t given me my notes :( hope the consultant isn’t too difficult about that and the meeting actually goes ahead. It’s with Supna Ahuja. I think someone on this board recommended her as one of the better ones. Let’s see what her views are, albeit she will need more time to monitor me and also read case files before recommending a course of action.

i haven’t signed my contract for 2/3 rounds of batching with CRGH. I think I can’t face repeating that but let’s see.
i did get on the CRGH donor egg waiting list. They say it takes on average 3-4 months for Caucasian donors. I had implications counselling which was good and nothing came up that we hadn’t thought about. I feel comfortable with this option but I really want to see if I have a last chance with my own eggs.

i hope you are all managing to keep your sanity and calmness. Do nice things for yourself. When I don’t think about IVF I realise how much of my life I drain into it. Obviously my desire to be a mother drives me so that still is there but it’s all definitely feeling harder to engage with.

Hi everyone. Sorry I'm so silent on this thread. I do still check in on you all.

@Sarahk20000 good luck tomorrow at ARGC. Yes Sapna is good but it's a totally different system at ARGC. It all goes through Mr Taranissi and/or Dr Sapna for decision making, fed back down through nurses. Very different to CRGH so you won't be with one consultant who is yours.

It's much less like an organised NHS service and much more like chaotic genius. They may not care much about not having your notes - actually I've never found an IVF clinic that does read notes from other clinics (include Guys, ARGC, CRGH and the Evewell in this). They may just want to know the headlines of your cycles which you can tell them yourself.

Hope it goes ok x

Hi everyone, I'm just back from an extended weekend out of London to escape the heat. I've just definitely got my period, on day 21, so I guess I won't be starting IVF this month, since I won't have done the oestrogen priming (progynova). I'm waiting for a call back from my consultant, since I'm curious if he'd say there is any chance I could start anyway, but obviously I want it to be the most ideal circumstances. And I'm sure my FSH would be too high without the oestrogen priming. I'm just disturbed that my cycle still seems so out of whack, 2 months after my failed FET. Is this normal? Did anyone else experience short cycles? And there's obviously no chance of conceiving naturally with such short cycles...

@2021ivfagain I'm so sorry you're not able to start this month! But completely feel your frustration/discouragement with yet another delay. I'd so hoped to do at lesat a round or two this summer since work is less busy and I'm more relaxed in the summer. But instead it'll be nearly 3 months off at least. Could I ask what your FSH was? Had you not done oestrogen priming? Did they have any suggestions for how to try to bring it down? I'm really hoping that if I take provera this month it will mean I can have a 28-ish day cycle and start in August. We're going to have to cancel a trip to the US (where my family lives) which is really disappointing, since that will probably now be when my next stim round is. Ugh.

@Sarahk20000 Good luck at ARGC. So many people go there as a last resort and have much better luck. I'll be curious to hear what they say.

@Janefx40 Nice to hear from you! How are you doing?