Embryo batching with PGS testing

[2021ivfagain]

Hello. I thought I’d start a new thread. It seems like the old one has been closed.

It’s been really good to share advice and experiences when going through the ups and downs of embryo batching.

The tyranny of the baseline scan... I've had so many delays now that I never expect to start a cycle when I'm meant to! I nearly always have to have a blood test following my baseline scan due to how prone I am to ovarian cysts. The good news is that the clinic call you on the afternoon of the blood test to let you know whether you can go ahead or not, so the wait isn't too agonisingly long. Try not to beat yourself up over the grapefruit ... it really might be fine.
Are you stimming to batch?

Hi @2021ivfagain, I'm sorry you're having all this stress. Just had a quick Google of prognyova and grapefruit. The risk mainly seems to be reported as theoretical. Personally I'd probably go ahead and do the blood test at baseline. There's only so much you can control. My diet is quite good, but it's definitely not sugar free.

Welcome @IUV1980.

@Rosemarypots sorry to hear about your cycle. I hope you have a good conversation with your consultant. Mine didn’t want me to do back to back cycles and put in one bleed in between then but even then my last one led to 17 eggs with only 1 fertilising so was a bad run and I wondered if multiple cycles had tired the body.
@2021ivfagain what are you having the progynova for? If it was to thicken the lining can’t you have it a bit longer? But I agree with @rosemarypots it’s definitely worth going along to scan and having the blood test as it may well be fine. And don’t worry about your diet, it won’t impact. Usually I find things can be exaggerated as risks. I think the potential delays to ivf for various reasons is even more stressful than the actual cycle.
@IUV1980 welcome. What a great euploid result at your age, let’s hope this next one is a success for you. I wish you the best of luck with yours, with your numbers I hope you can get more than one child from it. I should also be starting a new FET with crgh but mine will be May as my Northisterone dates don’t start until 25 April. My FET is with our third and last euploid so it’s very nerve wracking. I am nearing 42 in September so feeling the stress of this one incase it doesn’t work :( I just faced a miscarriage last month so all still a bit raw right now.

@Sarahk20000
Thanks for your words of encouragement. Progynova is estrogen priming due to dominant follicle in last cycle due to elevated fsh. I’m worried about the grapefruit as it can stop the progynova from working as it should, so hoping estrogen is high enough to lower fsh and improve stimulation phase.

@Rosemarypots
Thanks for your message. I have to go to CRGH now for baseline scan on Tuesday. Problem is if progynova has not worked and my cycle is cancelled I will lose about £800 which they take out for baseline scan. I’m hoping it’s all good. I just hope this is not fate telling me to give up. It’s hard when setbacks happen. I so want my son to have a sibling. Our family is small and we can’t all be together for family events as my Dad can’t leave the house and needs lots of care. It’s like my family is divided. I miss when I could go out for a meal with my mum and dad or have them over to my house for a meal. We can’t do that anymore: my mum can’t manage the steps. My husband thinks he’s getting too old to look after another baby as he’s 42 now and he hates the stress of IVF. I’m 40 nearly 41 but I don’t feel like that at all. I’m tired of IVF but don’t want to give up.

@2021ivfagain oh I see your concern now. Fingers crossed it hasn’t impacted. Your home situation sounds hard. I hope this round goes ok and your husband stays in the game longer to see it succeed. He isn’t that old but I think not all men have the same need to have children as women seem to (some men do so I am not stereotyping). My husband is 51 and I feel bad almost that I am dragging him in a painful IVF journey that he doesn’t want to be on. But we sometimes just have to give ourselves the right to try something if our heart really wants to.

@Sarahk20000

So very sorry to hear about your miscarriage. Miscarriages are always heartbreaking but somehow even crueller when an ivf conception. I have everything crossed for you that your next cycle is successful.

Yes I was very lucky with the number of euploids. I should qualify (cold facts are important!) - 2 of those euploids were from frozen eggs stored in 2019, and the other 6 were from two batching cycles at CRGH last summer. Also, we used my partners frozen sperm from 15years ago.

@2021ivfagain

Good luck for your scan tomorrow. It seems like you’ve got a lot on your plate other than the ivf which must be v tough. Don’t despair. I agree that setbacks and delays are more stressful than the actual treatment. And I’ll add to that, that anticipating delays (and ‘wasted’ money on abandoned cycles) is also v stressful. But, as my partner always reminds me when I start worrying: it hasn’t happened yet! I hope you manage to enjoy what’s left of Easter and receive good news tomorrow.

@Ivfhoper

I was impressed to see how many cycles you’ve done. That’s hardcore, I salute you! I think we have messaged last summer when I had a different username (summerbreeze) - I think you too were previously treated at ARGC? And like me, had a bad experience and moved to CRGH?

@Lola245

Hope you’re doing ok. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you.

@IUV1980 @Sarahk20000 and @Rosemarypots

Thanks for your messages. I think the grapefruits did decrease the effectiveness of the progynova. I went for my scan today and I have no cysts. My lining was thin due to the norethisterone, but had fsh, estradiol and progesterone tested and all in normal range, so starting this cycle. I am annoyed that I’ve messed up my cycle slightly, but I just have to hope for the best. I can’t afford to delay things. It is worrying as well that my levels were not as good as last August. I’m 41 in June. I really want another child. Anyway sorry for the moan.

@2021ivfagain Really glad you're proceeding with the cycle and your levels are normal. That's great news!

@IUV1980 thank you for your positive wishes on my upcoming cycle. My husband has ended up being covid positive today so let’s see if I can manage to avoid it. I start my Northisterone on Sunday and have my endometrial scratch on the 3rd so it’s all a little close. I don’t know what CRGH rules are around covid. My consultant had said a 28 day delay.
@2021ivfagain I am so pleased you managed to go ahead with your cycle. Let’s hope it goes well 😊

@2021ivfagain
Hi, please can you tell me how long you have to take the estrogen priming drug P? for?
I ask as my first cycle at 42 years old last week had to be bought forward due to a lead follicle also.
I would like to ask a consultant at Create Birmingham to put me on it before my next round.
Thanks

@Sarahk20000
IVF during Covid is just so stressful. I really hope you don't catch it from him. I tested positive for Covid on day three of my last cycle, which was just after my baseline scan. That cycle was obviously cancelled but I started norethisterone on day 15 to prepare me to start again 28 days later. The only caveat to starting Norethisterone on day 15 was that I had to be fully recovered, which I was. Incidentally, my partner didn't catch Covid from me.

My bleed started today, baseline scan on Saturday...

@Rosemarypots
Each cycle has been different for me as I am a "poor responder". I am getting ready for my 8th egg retrieval, the cycle should start next week.

@Sarahk20000

Hi. I’m sorry your husband has covid. I know how stressful it is. Are you able to live with family or friends for a week? When my husband got it from work, he wore a mask indoors but stayed in another room most of the time. I didn’t get it straight away. I expect you don’t want to delay your transfer.

@Ivfhoper
Good luck with your next cycle. I started stimming yesterday.

@IVFPrayingForBioChild
Hi. Welcome to the group.

I took norethisterone from day 14-25 of my last cycle. I overlapped it with progynova on day 21 until day 2 of baseline scan. However, I ate grapefruits which compromised the absorption of it.

@IUV1980 thank you. Covid is at such a spread so hard to avoid it these days. Good luck with your baseline scan and the cycle.
@2021ivfagain remind me please, did you ultimately catch it off your husband? Or was it a different time?
It’s all tricky in trying to isolate in such a small flat that we have. In terms of who I can stay with I have my mum but she is 72 and has a lot of underlying conditions so now I may have been exposed I don’t want to risk it.
i was thinking if I do catch it, I might use the delay to try ARGC and get set up with them. Maybe leaving the CRGH euploid in the freezer and trying another egg collection just before 42 hits. I keep wondering about this but feel I will walk into a miscarriage due to chromosome issues but then I had a miscarriage with a euploid anyway. My consultant won’t let me do any egg collection rounds here and will be switching to DE options next.
so let’s see if I get a forced break I will rethink if Crgh return my payment. I was so confused about my next steps and seems still am!

@Sarahk20000

I’ve only had covid once. It was my husband who caught it first from an indoor face to face training event at work. The instructor did not wear a mask and tested positive for covid the day after the training. As soon as we knew, my husband wore a mask and we divided the house to some extent. My son never caught it at all, but I did not straight away. I don’t go out much so I’m not exposed elsewhere. I work at home and look after my son. I don’t go shopping at all and at present I’m almost self-isolating: I just walk around the block. I’m not even seeing family.

If I were you, I’d buy some lateral flow tests just in case. Also, I think your consultant is unfair. I would research more clinics but I would consider changing your consultant. I recommend Dr Seshadari or Dr Ali Alchemy (not sure on spelling of their names). These are excellent. I don’t think it was fair what your consultant said. I really would give CRGH another go first but with a different consultant. I’m confident the two I’ve recommended would be good.

You need to go with your instincts and if you think you need to do more egg collections go for it. That’s what I say. My cycles have been delayed and I feel I’m at the end of the road. I had a fresh transfer at 38 with CRGH and it was a success.

Is anyone here considering asking their clinic to just freeze all embryos on day 3 instead of letting them go to blastocyst, days 5&6?
Don't embryos have a better chance in the uterus rather than an incubator?

@IVFPrayingForBioChild
My understanding is that you can only PGS test blastocysts, hence growing them for so long. Also the 'die off' between day 3-5 is very high, so potentially a lot of drugs/cycles wasted on embryos that were never viable...

@Sarahk20000 I'm an ex-ARGC patient... I had a bad experience there which I why I moved to CRGH. But if you are considering ARGC request Ms Sapna Ahuya... she took over my care after my terrible cycle. I wanted to leave the clinic by then, but I expect if she had been my doc all along I wouldn't have had such a bad time.

@2021ivfagain thanks for the advice. Yes I will get some lateral flow tests and see how I get on. I definitely don’t want to put myself through the e endometrial scratch pain if I am not transferring the month after it.
@IVFPrayingForBioChild i did ask my consultant this and her response was it’s better to wait until day 5 to weed out the embryos not likely to work. She felt that was a safer approach. The only time when clinics may go for day 3 transfers are if very small numbers and not batching cycles. Mine was a fan of batching and PGS testing for over 40.

@IUV1980 thank you so much for the advice. I will ask for her if I switch. Let’s see where this cycle gets.

Hi All,
Just wanted to say that reading this thread really helps calm me down & feel like maybe there is still some hope & also makes me feel less alone.

I’m suddenly really struggling being back home after a break away. The distraction of being away meant I wasn’t thinking about ivf etc hardly at all but now I seem to be thinking about it even more since we got back. I feel like I have mega PMT I just keep feeling so angry. Although part of me is happy to have a covid enforced break I keep fixating on the fact soon it will have been a year since I was last pregnant & I just feel so bitter about it. I don’t know if my hormones are messed up after the cancelled cycle, I’ve had my withdrawal bleed now so maybe I’m just about to have a mega horrible AF!

@ivfhoper I really admire your fortitude to keep doing egg collections. I hope the next one goes well.

@IVFPrayingForBioChild I’m also with create Birmingham although they have been good I find you do have to ask for things. They didn’t want to do thyroid tests etc… on me at first until I said we had family history. We also had to request DNA frag test for my OH. I know that good clinics won’t try and push lots of unproven extras but I’m so sick of having to research everything to make sure we are doing what’s best for us. I guess that’s the joy of ivf. Our consultant is happy to discuss everything at length though & go through all the options when we ask about them.

@IUV1980

I was at the clinic today for my day 6 scan and it went ok. I have 12 follicles but they due to estrogen priming they are all about the same size and smaller. I hope it goes ok.

How did your baseline scan go? I hope you did not get cysts and that you can start this time. I know how annoying delays can be.

@InvisibleDreamer

I’m sorry you’ve had a forced break from IVF due to covid. I did too last month although the stress was getting to me so it did me good. I hope you feel less stressed about it all. I found acupuncture a good stress booster but now worried about covid I’m avoiding it at present. I work from home and am doing lots and of cooking to take my mind off the stress but it’s hard.

Anyone got any thoughts on the new research out on PGT-A testing? Looks like 5% of abnormal embryos transferred in this new study led to live births, 7% ended in miscarriage and the rest didn’t take (88%). We have been biopsying as we go but not yet tested any embryos in order to try and avoid transferring embryos that will definitely not make it. Not sure what to think now.

@2021ivfagain thanks for asking! I did, as ever, have a new cyst... BUT the clinic called this afternoon to let know that isn't hormonally active. So, I'm officially starting FET #2

12 follicles is great! I really hope they all grow for you!

@InvisibleDreamer Sorry you're having a tough time. It's really a brutal process isn't it? I started this journey last March, and sometimes can't believe I'm still in treatment over a year later, quite considerable poorer (!) and with nothing yet to show for it. Also today, one of my oldest friends who is my age (41) just found out she's PG after her very first cycle of IVF. I'm thrilled for her, but IVF seems to be so easy for others. I'm in a constant battle with myself not descend into self pity, as I'm literally the only one in my various friendship groups that is childless. So I get it... keeping my emotions in check is one of the biggest challenges of IVF.

@InvisibleDreamer Not sure I quite follow the research you outlined... does it mean that there's a 5% chance that a discarded embryo (if genetically tested) could lead to a live birth? If so, then a 95% accuracy is persuasive. Nothing is 100%...

@InvisibleDreamer
Hi, do you mind private pm'ing me who your consultant is?
I'm having the same issues, having to ask for 'permission' to spend my own money on tests.
PGT-A is not rated by HFEA just the same as Sperm Fragmentation Tests, yet they are happy to PGT-A test anything and everything but won't let me have the Sperm Frag Test. I have an appointment soon so will see what they say. I'll do the tests separately elsewhere anyway.
I use MUMS for blood tests.
I'm not waiting for Create to tell me what I can do and can't.
I think IVF clinics have a fixed model of blame mother's eggs push donor eggs.
I think that unfortunately the most innovative research in Europe was in Ukraine, Kyiv. If it wasn't for the war rumours circulating since 2017 I think I would have gone to Kyiv for my first cycle.