ERA/ALICE/EMMA testing thread 2

[seven201]

Link to the old thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/4187520-era-testing-after-multiple-implantation-failures-anyone-had-it-done?msgid=110302437&utmsource=mentions&utmmmedium=email&utmcampaign=2020-10-19&utmmterm=You+have+been+mentioned+in+a+post&rei=438192#110302437

Welcome to the new thread. Anyone welcome.

I'll have to look that up @Dochas121 I need some belly laughs.

Acupuncture was good this morning, she only used the lamp on my feet, so I was worrying about nothing. Still zero signs of anything, can't symptom spot if there ant any!

I'm sorry @Saraah30, I don't know but maybe one of the others can help. Are you doing ivf at the moment?

So my first NK biopsy came back as normal (but the low side of normal) and my most recent one has come back as low, so what the hell?! I'm supposed to be implanting everything with these results :(

Mine came back low the second time @Gardenlady543, it was 4% the first time and 0.71% the second. Professor Brosens said the low was likely a fluke and wanted me to do a third biopsy, but I decided not to.
This was before my ivf cycle in May and I did get implantation that time.

I put mine down to being on a concoction of immune suppressants and modulators. Have you got a review booked?

My ivf clinic didn't have a clue about low nk cells. I know the treatment is 3 months of sitagliptin and you can't ttc or plan a transfer in that time. But I know someone who did the treatment and has just miscarried again 😔

I'm also a bit sceptical of the approach they take at the implantation clinic. I'm in a group on Facebook and someone has similar results to mine and he's prescribed steroids for her, but with me, he said just progesterone and as it was during vivid, he said I didn't really need do do the second biopsy as it would be normal. But then it was low 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think the actual biopsy encourages stem cell growth as well, so the results are a snapshot in time xx

During covid *

I just don't understand @VenusStarr my first was 3.44% and my second was 1.34%. This is the opposite of the results expected in people like me that never implant anything. The appointment to discuss is now booked for a week on Tuesday.

Just as I got the result I also got an email from the secretary at my clinic to say she won't be dealing with patients anymore. So it looks like my only way to contact my specialist is now gone as well. :(

@Saraah30

what is the difference between ALICE / EMMA test and biopsy with antibiogram?

Sorry, I've not heard of an antibiogram. Has your clinic given you options for testing then?

@VenusStarr I'm glad the acupuncture went well.

@Dochas121 I'm just monitoring this cycle (heavily medicated FET in November) as it's my first cycle after surgery. I've been using the flashing smileys this time too but it's staying as an empty circle and cheapie opks are remaining quite white. It's just a bit of mystery but not a big worry at the moment. I've not heard of 'great news' so I might give that one a try. I think I've been watching too much silent witness as I had a nightmare last night.

@Gardenlady543 that is good news right? So you don't need to worry about that side of things. Maybe it's all been down to the bacteria levels and this new course of treatment will help that side of things. That's interesting (and very frustrating for you) about the secretary thing; must be a cost saving thing. At my clinic we're only allowed to ever speak to nurses unless a consultation is booked in, but the wait for those is 6 weeks.

I don't know what to make of the news @seven201 this feels like a very stressful week. Firstly worrying about why the Gp receptionist wouldn't tell me the swab result, then having to adapt my treatment plan to add in thrush treatment, now this unexpected biopsy result and having no way to contact my consultant now. It's been helpful having the secretary as a go between as my specialist has asked me to get so many tests done and I needed to pass on how all that was going.

I just don't know what to think anymore. I guess I'll know more when the professor tells me what the result means, but I'll already be doing my IVF cycle by then. I guess it won't make any difference to the cycle if he recommends sitagliptin for 3 months, but I can't see how that would help my case when I never implant in the first place, surely raising the nk cells will make it even harder.

@Gardenlady543 for you. I hope you can relax a bit this weekend. It’s been a lot to take in for you this week.

Overall hopefully it’s good that the NK cells aren’t an issue. Fingers crossed the Garnerella bad bacteria was just persistent and causing you issues and maybe the thrush and if you can clear those up with those stronger antibiotics you will have a good chance with your excellent embryos.

When you say you’ll be doing IVF are you doing a second round of IVF to bank more embryos or do you mean a FET?

I hope so @Dochas121 by IVF I just meant my FET cycle, due to start it with my period next week.

I'm feeling so sore with all the medication I'm using, I think it's irritating the skin as it comes out :(

I'm sorry you're sore @Gardenlady543 it's intensive all the treatment you are doing ❤️ have you got an appointment with your therapist today?

I can imagine your nk cell results have added another layer of worry, I hope that you can get some clarity with Professor Brosens. I do think continuing with your FET is what I would choose to do (and have done). I may revisit my results with Professor B and ask for the sitagliptin without the third biopsy if this FET is a bfn.

I started watching superstore last night, was funny. Thank you for the suggestion 🙂
Was quite emotional yesterday, cried out of the blue and then later watching Love on the Spectrum. I've been in tears watching BBC breakfast this morning, but actually feel quite happy today. Gotta, love those hormones! 😂 Woke at 4am today then had vivid dreams, one where I was visibly pregnant and kept catching sight of my tummy in reflections. Nearly halfway...

Hope everyone is OK today xx

@Gardenlady543 you just sound exhausted you poor thing. Can you book a massage or anything for yourself this weekend? I know it’s extra expense on top of everything else but it might be nice to do something relaxing for you.

@VenusStarr superstore only gets better too. I wasn’t mad on it for the first series but it really is great further on. Glad you’re enjoying it! Lots of episodes to keep you going through the TWW. When are you planning to test? Is it quicker with a FET as no HCG?

I've got a blood hcg test booked for Wednesday @Dochas121 😬 feels far too soon for my liking. But it'll be 9dp5dt so accurate I guess. I'm not testing at home, I can't face it. I'm not ready for it to be over. X

Oh wow @VenusStarr not long to go.

Thanks for everyone's kind words, I emailed the implantation clinic about the viagra and Prof Brosens emailed me to say it's fine to take it. So I'm a bit more relaxed about that.

Finding the therapy tough, I'm very highly strung and have been for all my life, the therapist sees a lot of business people and says they're all the same. She said it doesn't fair well for successful marriages and being a parent, my marriage is fine. I guess dealing with how bad of a parent I might be is probably not my priority right now when it may never even happen. She mentioned medication but I'm not really keen to add medication into the mix with everything.

My stomach did a flip there are the thought of getting the HCG on Wednesday and it’s not even my test @VenusStarr 😂😂 not long to go at all. The nerves!!!

@Gardenlady543 I find that a bit insulting. I’m also quite type A as are several of my friends and they all have kids and marriages seem strong. In what way would if supposedly make you a bad parent

Is that therapist actually worth going to if she’s just making you feel bad about yourself and casting aspersions on your future parenting? I’ve done a few sessions with a counsellor at my clinic and she just listened to me, probed a few bits of my feelings and gave me some coping tools and I felt a bit better offloading.

That's good to know @Dochas121 she said that I would be overprotective and not give freedom and to be fair I am like that with my dogs. I'm so worried about anything happening to them. I'm also like this with my husband, I make him message me as soon as he's finished a motorway journey.

She is right, it’s not like I don’t know this about myself, I’m stressed all the time, I have a bad neck and grind my teeth.

So far I’ve tried
⁃ Massages
⁃ Neck massagers
⁃ Chiropractor
⁃ Acupuncture
⁃ A hot tub in my house
⁃ Aromatherapy
⁃ Yoga
⁃ Mindfulness
⁃ A really expensive jaw guard
⁃ Botox
⁃ Counselling
⁃ Medication (amitriptyline)
⁃ Weighted blanket
⁃ Heated blanket
⁃ A buckwheat stuffed pillow
⁃ Relaxing hobbies - plants, aquariums and crafts
⁃ Exercise

I just don't know what else to do, she said I just need to keep trying.

@Gardenlady543 Sorry in advance for the rant but I am extremely close to my wonderful parents and family and we are all like this. If my mam is due home from work I notice my dad starts standing up and looking out the window trying to act casual but really worrying about how she should be back by now. We all text saying we are home/ arrived. When we were younger and went clubbing my mam would come into town at 3am to collect me and my friends and drop us home - she said she would rather do that than worry about how we were getting back or us hanging around the street and she wouldn’t be able to sleep anyway. I don’t see how that makes them bad parents. My siblings all have kids now bar me and are all very happy.

I suffer with health anxiety and would be very protective of my DH and dog but I think this is massively exacerbated by infertility and wondering if this will be it for my family and if anything happened anyone it’s less people. I don’t think it would be manifesting as strongly if I’d had kids normally after marriage.

I feel that this is all part of people taking infertility less seriously. If you had cancer and were worried about something happening to your DH and were anxious and upset you would get sympathy not be told you’re probably going to wreck your marriage and be a terrible parent. I would honestly question the benefits of this therapist - could it be worth trying a few others and see how they fit with you?

Also sounds like you would benefit from CBT and techniques to head off stress before it spirals rather than general mindfulness and maybe just acceptance that you are highly strung and that obviously suffering an illness like infertility makes that worse. It doesn’t have to define you and you don’t necessarily need to ‘fix’ it.

I don’t know what anyone else thinks.

I honestly don't know how I feel about the outcome of this, it's like a dream. For once, I'm content in limboland.

I agree with @Dochas121, @Gardenlady543 I'm not sure the therapist's approach is that helpful, especially at the moment. I remember seeing a therapist a year into our infertility journey and was struggling a lot and she basically argued with me and said "look, it's 50-50 if you'll be a mom, you'll have to start looking at your options", a year after ttc! Needless to say I only saw her once. But my point is, the therapy is for you to explore what's important to you right now, in a place where you feel safe and supported to unpick the difficulties, not to be told your personality traits are ineffective or mean something for a future that doesn't exist yet. It's OK for you to say this approach isn't helpful for me, I need you to help me look at this, like cbt strategies as Dochas121 suggested. Try not to put pressure on yourself to be doing 'all the right things', focus on what you need. Otherwise the checklist you've shared just becomes a chore list of things to do and can become an added stressor and a list of things you perceive that you're 'failing at' - you aren't failing by the way, but it you can feel that when you only focus or see what you're not doing, rather than the things you are.

I think you're right @Dochas121 infertility is not seen as a serious condition with multiple impacts on all areas of life and functioning. We're all just trying to do our best ❤️

Well said @VenusStarr and you managed to avoid a rant unlike myself 😂😂

We are all going through so much, while holding down jobs, relationships, maintaining family and friends. I do think sometimes you would get more consideration and sympathy if you’d something visual like a broken leg.

No need for us to be hard on ourselves on top of everything else. I know how you feel @VenusStarr I found my last two week wait actually a nice time, hopeful and still having potential for a pregnancy. All fingers and toes crossed for good news next week.

Thanks @Dochas121 and @VenusStarr I've been like this for so long that I don't think the chance of me changing right now will be very likely.

In many ways it's benefited me, I'm a doctor with several degrees because of how obsessive I was with learning and seem to have at least found issues that might explain why I never implant through all the research.

She said that I will find out where accidents have happened and then try to prevent every scenario when I have kids, well yeah I probably will. Having seen children die when furniture drops on them, you better believe every piece of furniture in my house is getting attached to the walls!

I think I kind of accepted that I'm like this a long times ago, DH is the opposite of me and that why we work so well and interestingly his mum is just like me! We make a good team, in many ways he's worse than me when it comes to the dogs! And when he has even the most mild injury he calls over the doctor (me)! Anyway in the 7.5 years we've been together we haven't once split up and we seem to be still going strong despite 2 years of infertility.

Also to add, I remember talking to my old boss who mentioned that people often mellow a lot once they have kids and as they age. So I mean I don't know. I am sure I will have a very stressful pregnancy if I get pregnant, but won't all of us, we've all been through hell. And I'm sure even the most mellowed out person will be overprotective of a child if they've been through infertility treatment.

@Gardenlady543 I don’t personally agree with your therapists approach of scaremongering potential things that will make you a ‘bad parent’ while you are in the throes of infertility. You only need to look on AIBU or other parts of this site to see children stuck in the middle of the most awful scenarios. Most people don’t consider how they will be as parents as they just have sex, get pregnant and then the baby is there. I’m not saying that’s necessarily right either but we have a lot more time to analyse ourselves in our wait to be parents and for all we know the minute a child arrives how you thought you would be is totally different. Overall though I don’t see how this conversation with your therapist benefits or helps you at the minute.

It sounds to me like your DH will balance you out in parenting if he is very relaxed and also that anxiety around anything happening to your child can be helped with CBT techniques. Go easy on yourself.

Hey guys

Wanted to wish u luck @VenusStarr you seem very chilled well done! I’m sure inside ur not!!!

@Gardenlady543 agree with the others re ur therapist. Not sure now is the time to discuss what sort of parent u may be. I’m protective over my son but I’d say I more value him and think about how blessed I am every day more than anything…I don’t know if people with haven’t had a hard time think like that about their children? I think infertility in some ways made me a better mother. I wouldn’t have wish it on anyone but the things it’s taught me about myself / my relationship with dh/ about what’s important in life / about my resilience and strength has all shaped the mother I am.

Anyways I think u need a new therapist! Not sure if ur in right space to delve into these issues ?? U just want someone to hear u out and make u feel better and stronger - least that’s what my cousellor did for me. I didn’t use her for ttc 2 but she was great when I was ttc my son and I felt like the world was about to end….

@seven201 can u get going soon then?? Hope so!

@Gardenlady543 when I was looking for a therapist I was told to try a few because it's important to find the right fit. Some combinations of people don't work together. It sounds like you may have a clash with this one.

For what it's worth I'm not the parent I thought I would be (in some good ways and some bad ways). I'm a super anxious person - have had a fair bit of therapy for this in the past and was mind bogglingly anxious during pregnancy but I'm bizarrely chilled as a parent. On the other hand whilst I'm someone who always does everything thoroughly and properly in my own life, I'm not as good at upholding boundaries as I thought I would be. There's really no way of knowing how you will feel or be in different scenarios but one thing I know is that you will be a great Mum!!!

Great Mums come in different forms...organised, disorganised, anxious, relaxed. There's no blueprint. You are amazing, just as you are xxx

@Gardenlady543 it does sound like your therapist is trying to analyse you and find faults to 'fix' - you don't need to change. The things you're describing aren't character flaws. I'm sorry she's making you feel inadequate or that your approach to life is wrong. We're all different and see things from our own perspectives. If you feel like some of the things you do are unhelpful or maladaptive or you feel like you can't cope and want to develop strategies to help you feel you are able to cope better, that's where the therapist should be focusing on helping you explore these and develop strategies to empower you ❤️ you aren't having therapy to be told off.

I don't think you were ranty @Dochas121 🙂

Thank you @Cream123 I do feel strangely calm at the moment (detached maybe?) Monday will be my anxious day as it'll be 7dp5dt and that's when I bled heavily in my fresh cycle. I have zero idea how this will turn out but do feel like there is some hope. I'd happily wait longer to find out though, not looking forward to a phone call with the result, but that's better than testing at home. Hope you're getting on well, I remember you said they were looking at the placenta, is all OK?

How are you doing @Janefx40? Hope you're getting on well @seven201 any more signs on opks?

Stabbed myself with my lubion needle this morning, got a little bruise on my finger. I woke up at 4am this morning, grand total of 4 hours last night 😴
Still feeling pretty normal. I had a bit of an upset tummy yesterday with cramping but not period cramps. Really thirsty too, but still feels like transfer was a surreal dream, if I wasn't there, I'd swear it didn't happen!