Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (2)

[purplemeggie]

I see we've filled up the thread and thought I'd better start another one. How's everyone doing?

Claudiddy - thank you for all the details it's great to know someone actually going through it at the same clinic as it's exactly what I'll be doing myself so no surprises.

Also helps to have the approx timeframes in my head given our EC/ET is quite close to xmas.

Did they tell you yesterday how many eggs have fertilised or will they do that tomorrow when they call you to confirm you're having your ET.

Was there anything in particular they told you to do after EC?

Wow, couple of days away and plenty of stuff happening on this thread!

Emma welcome back and nice to see you again. Orange I think I may have already congratulated you but if not, congratulations! Battery try not to fret too much about the small number of follicles. It's quality not quantity that you want, and my clinic has told me that 8 is a pretty good number in the past.

Shellster all my medication arrived yesterday so I'm looking forward to getting started around the same time as you later this month. Onwards and upwards!

Frazoz - the embryologist told me yesterday (in a very kind way) that three from the original dozen eggs were no good, and of the remaining nine, five have fertilised. It may be that something has occurred with any or all of those five since yesterday and I'll have different news tomorrow morning, but I don't know.

The emotional side of IVF has caught me unawares lots of times (awkward in meetings!) and the medication has made me bone-tired, but I have found all the clinical bits and the self-administering jabs to be absolutely fine.

The guidance notes about egg collection basically reiterate what they tell you during your consultations - from the outset of treatment be sensible about physical activities - i.e. I've stopped bootcamp and horseriding while doing IVF; after egg collection just take it easy for a couple of days (I have found feeling sore has increased in the last two days) and use the pain relief they prescribe (you can't take ibuprofen as it interferes with the IVF drugs). I'm sure they will tell me more tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.

Claudiddy - that's good that they tell you within a day of having EC, as you said a lot can change between EC and ET but at least you aren't stressing worrying whether or not you'll get to ET. I really hope the remaining 5 have progressed well for you tomorrow. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for you!!

I haven't even started yet but my emotions have been up and down and even though a few more family members know I'm still keeping my distance from anything really as just don't want to have a "break down".

I think I'll end up taking two days off work at EC then work from home till ET and have two days off. Commuting is tough at the best of times but really don't feel comfortable doing it around EC/ET time.

Hey Shellster, the monitor thing is another digital means of measuring your levels to calculate when you're about to ovulate. You can use the OPK sticks (as I discovered by pure chance, only after I'd spent heaps on the two separate lots of sticks) which is why I've been using both the monitor and the OPK tests.

I've been using this system: www.clearblueeasy.com/clearblue-easy-fertility-monitor.php

If it is a science it's definitely more of a pseudo-science designed to make people think they're being proactive about their fertility. Most of the doctors I've spoken to are pretty sceptical about charting BBT because there are so many variables that can't be taken into account (like whether you get up in the night, what you've eaten the day before, whether there is a shift in temperature between the exact moment you actually gain consciousness and when you take your temp, even if you try to take it immediately there's still a gap), but are cautiously optimistic about the tests.

I'm cynical about it all, even though I've totally been replying on it because it makes me feel like I'm being proactive about my fertility.

Hen, have you decided what to do? I really don't think you should be concerned about where you'll now sit in the clinic's statistics (it seems really unfair of them to even mention), but you do seem to have a nice little bundle growing there! That said, whatever you decide to do will be what's right for you.

Claudiddy, good luck with your impending ET!!

Morning all

Well, another scan this morning

Endo - 9mm
R Ovary - 12, 15, 14, 7
L Ovary - 14, 15, 15, 14, 14, 10

I guess it is an improvement, I'm just in a really pessimistic mood at the moment. It doesn't help that both my consultant and DH seem completely convinced that I will be successful on this round when the evidence just doesn't support that view.

Big sigh.

Claudiddy Am I right in thinking you had EC with only local anesthetic? I bow down in awe!

Sorry, and Emma It wasn't the clinic that said that, to be fair, I am just being cynical and taking what they tell me with a pinch of salt.

I don't know why I am on such a massive downer at the moment. I have no logical reason to be - I just can't shake the feeling that this is going to be such a massive waste of time, energy and effort and the chances of a BFP at the end of it are so small.

I might stay away from this thread until I am in a better frame of mind, I would hate to suck everyone else into my little ball of gloom

Hen - blimey no! It was a local anaesthetic for the egg retrieval - but might as well have been a general as I was totally asleep, unaware of anything. Hen, keep talking through the down days, you can ride the tide.

Today I had two "day 3" eggs transferred, the other three are developing slowly and may come to nothing, clinic will call me on Weds (day 5) to let me know, so we can decide to put them in the freezer. The consultant gave me an ultrasound picture of the two teeny white blobs, so I've stuck it on the fridge and intend to do nothing for a fortnight except read and eat crisps.

Thanks for your good wishes.I know the IVF might not give me the result I want, but if nothing else I've found out a lot about myself in the process!

Good luck for the 2WW Claudiddy!
My EC was under local too but I was totally tripping due to the drugs combo they use. I felt some discomfort as they got to the last couple of follicles but the pain post-EC was much worse for me - 'mild' OHSS.

Battery - have you tried hypnotherapy to help relax a bit? Free clips on YouTube etc.

Oh, I understand now Emma, I've heard of that device. Can understand the Dr's being skeptical and I found that temp taking was difficult for the reasons they mention too. But if all things point to the same day of ovulation, it seems like a good thing.

Battery PLEASE don't feel you need to leave us when you are feeling negative. I really find it helpful to get these thoughts out here and I hope you do too. Also, I actually really find your comments reassuring. I have been through 8 IVFs and you mke me feel more normal as I am the same way with highs and lows. Not long till egg retrieval then I am 100% sure you will be pleasantly surprised by the number of mature eggs and feeling better. Your clinics stats about 70% of eggs being mature is based on the fact that most women having follicles growing at less co-ordinated rates than you so on average 30% of follicles are immature at egg collection/less than 15mm. But we can already see that right now you have 7 eggs inside you that are mature (based on the fact that they grow 2mm a day on average and the 14mm ones will have now grown). Not just saying this to try and cheer you up - it's what I really think.

When is your actual egg collection scheduled?

claudiddy, wonder how they could tell 3 eggs were 'no good'? Did they explain this? If you find out, please let me know. I never get any comments about my eggs being good or not and would love to find out how they can tell so I can ask my own clinic the same question to find out about my egg quality next IVF next cycle.

Shellster - the embryologist team at my chosen clinic monitor the cell division constantly, the one I spoke to before embryo transfer told me that by day three he would expect a "good" egg cell to have divided 7, 8 or 9 times, he then visually grades them 1 to 4, 4 being best.

By yesterday morning, of my five fertilised eggs, one had divided x7 and scored a 3 on the embryologist's "good egg" chart and the other one had divided x8 and scored a 4, so these two "front runners" (his words!) were described to me as really good quality and both were transferred.

Of the remaining three fertilised eggs, one had no cell division at all, the other two are both dividing, but at a much slower rate than the front runners, described as "not so good". Hence the embryologist and consultant decision to continue monitoring them til tomorrow (day 5), with the clear caveat that sometimes the fertilised cells just don't divide as they should.

Shellster - I just came across this info on embryo grading, turns out the whole website is useful www.oneatatime.org.uk/172.htm

Must feel good to have two embryos back inside cladiddy. Thanks for the info. I am aware of cell division and that being a major sign of embryo quality - should be 4 cells at day 2, 6-10 cells at day 3, etc. But what I am really interested in is how they were able to tell that 3 of your eggs weren't good at the start - it might have even been before fertilisation, and certainly before cell division was expected to occur. Did they give you any clues as to what exactly was wrong with those three eggs.

Wow, it really is a numbers game isn't it. You started out with 12 eggs and have two good ones at day 3. Then again, there are those like Blue who produce four eggs yet get 2 blasts transferred. So the results seem very individual. Just counting down until it's my turn again.

So now the longest part of the journey begins - the 2ww! Do you have to go back to the clinic for a blood test on a certain date or have they just given you a date to test at home. Will probably be around the time I am starting injections.

bluemoonday, can I ask a question? I want to ask what doses of FSH and/or LH you were on for both of your cycles? My Dr and I decided on 450 FSH for my next cycle. But now I am thinking that having such a high dose is not going to make me produce any more mature follicles (as that will be determined by the number of follicles available on day 2), but it is just going to perhaps overdose the follicles that I do have and reduce the quality of the eggs that I do produce. I am seeing my Dr for the scratch tomorrow so want to make a decision before then so I can tell her to change my protocol. You are a poor responder like me, yet you have an exceptional percentage make it to blast so I am very interested in what dosage your Dr prescribes you.

Anyone else who has any experience, words of wisdom from their clinic, or advise based on their own research - I welcome that too! Thank you.

Claudiddy I just wanted to wish you all the best in your 2ww I think you'll be testing the time I start my cycle so I'll look out for some good news from you!!

Claudiddy can I ask what your exact cycle days were and what you had done when please?

AF seems to be a lot earlier than expected so just trying to work out when potentially I'm gong to be having scans/blood tests/EC/ET.

Claudiddy, good luck!! All fingers crossed.

Hen, if ever there is a place to mope, this is it! That black hole of anxiety and doubt is so much worse when you feel like you're on your own, but we've all been there. I hope today is a bit brighter.

Also, I'm glad that it wasn't the clinic saying all those things -- I couldn't believe how unprofessional they were being! A pinch of salt is right, though. You need it! When my cycle failed, I was so bitter and cynical toward what I saw as the motivations of the clinic to push me into IVF. I'm less embittered now, but still fairly sceptical!

Hi Shellster - in my first cycle I took 300 Gonal F all the way (after downregging with buserelin). In the second cycle I started on 150 Gonal F, then increased it incrementally up to 600 (after downregging with triptorelin). In this cycle I'm not going to downregulate and I'm going to mix Gonal F with Menopur. My results were pretty similar in the first two cycles so I'm not sure if the different doses of Gonal F made much difference. What do you have in mind?

Hello!

Thanks so much for all your kind words, I have been lurking and reading and I feel a lot better knowing I'm not alone -

If I am honest, this process is dragging up a lot of difficult feelings around the termination I had - I am still (just about) sure I did the right thing, but I do wonder if I had known at the time that I would not conceive again, would I have made a different decision? Then I start to hate myself for putting my own selfish desire to have a baby above the quality of like that baby would have had, then I hate myself more for being so disablist and making the judgement that the life of a child with addition needs isn't worth living...it becomes a very upsetting spiral of thought that I am trying very hard to talk myself down from.

Anyway, today I had what I expected to be my last scan today with EC scheduled for either Fri or Sat, the results were:

Endo - 10mm
Right Ovary - 18, 15, 16, 8, 8
Left Ovary - 16, 17, 18, 18, 14, 12, 13, 13

(today is day 10 of stimms)

I also had bloods which were faxed directly to the clinic so I don't know what they said, but on the basis of the combination of blood and scan results, the Lister have decided to continue the stimming and push EC back to Monday (poss Sun). I have to go for another scan and bloods on Friday.

I'm assuming that this is to give the 'new recruits' a chance to catch up with the more established follies? I'm feeling quite a lot better today, this follicle count is much more what I was expecting (hoping for) and the fact that they seem to be growing fairly slowly and evenly is giving me more hope that they will be mature on EC day.

I am fairly confident I saw a few more (much smaller) follicles on the scan that the doc didn't measure.I find this interesting because I expected my AFC of 10 to be the absolute max number of follicles I would develop, but I seem to have a few more than expected.

I didn't do any down-regging, just started off on 150iu daily of Gonal-f which was increased to 200iu and now they have put me back down to 150iu.

How is everyone else? Claudiddy I hope your 2ww is speeding past?

Thanks again for being here, I would be going completely crazy without you guys being here, I'm so thankful x

Hen

Bums, I'm on my mobile and it's misbehaving.

What I wanted to say was Hen, my heart goes out to you. This thing messes with our heads. I had a mc three years ago, after ttc for two years. At the time, my primary emotion was relief - at least we can conceive. Right, now let's get on with doing it again. It never happened and I later felt terribly guilty for failing to mourn the loss of that baby sufficiently and almost convinced myself that my infertility was a deserved fate. Ridiculous of course, but the result of wanting to make sense of something that made no sense. We make the best decisions we can, for ourselves and our families - including our unborn DCs - based on the information available at the time. We can do no more. xxx

Good luck 2ww'ers - thinking positive thoughts for you xxx

We had a good meeting with our consultant today. He agrees that DE are our best option. He said if we had insisted that we wanted to try once more he wouldn't have talked us out of it, but he felt the time had come for the next step. Interestingly, he said that my response to the first cycle - 5 eggs, 5 fertilising, 2 good quality blastocysts - was surprisingly good and lulled us all into a sense of false hope. He said my second cycle was much more what they would have expected and that if we carried on, at my age, we should expect each cycle to be a little worse.
So we move on. We are meeting my cousin on Sunday to talk her through the implications. Apparently, in this country, donors must be under 35 and have completed their families or be donating eggs in the course of their own fertility treatment. Because my cousin has PCOS and wants to preserve her fertility at age 27 as insurance, we may be able to go ahead. We all have to have mandatory counselling.

If, for whatever reason, we can't go ahead with my cousin, there is a 1 year waiting list for donors at our clinic, and the consultant recommended that we go abroad. I was pleased about that, too, because it will save us a fortune, but we feel very loyal to our consultant as he had looked after us well.

But the best news of all was that if we DE, then for statistical purposes - success rates as well as risk of chromosomal defects - I get to be in my twenties again, so I can count myself in the nice optimistic bit of that bar chart that I currently loathe because it tells me that I'm past my sell-by date.

Hen its great they do EC every day. Mine only do mon-fri which i think must affect results. Though think it benefitted me this cycle as they couldnt trigger me really early (fri) so had to coast me. Letting eggs get a bit bigger.
This ivf lark just gives too much time to stew over stuff.

battery is there a counselling service at your clinic? You may find it helpful to talk to someone professionally, it has definitely helped me in the past.

Purple my clinic also recommends going abroad for egg donation, to Spain. I really hope it works out with your cousin but if not, I'll follow your next move with interest. Our specialist has also recommended donor eggs if our next cycle fails so I might be right behind you...

Hen, my heart goes out to you. This IVF is bring up difficult memories and emotions. I don't want to blab on about something I couldn't understand, but please feel free to rant away here. Somehow I find it so much easier saying the most detailed things here that I wouldn't tell someone in RL. Hope getting that off your chest has helped in some small way. xox

Purple, interesting that going abroad with the added expense of airfares and accommodation will save you a fortune. You sound like you are well on your way to accepting this. There is a commercial on in Aust at the moment that says genetics play on 20% role in the baby. What we eat during pregnancy and the upbringing is the other 80%. I think of you every time.

Blue, I am shocked to hear your clinic recommending egg donation... and you sound so accepting of it as a possible future move. There are no egg donor lists here so I guess it's not as common here and that's why it feels more foreign to me. Thanks so much for your info re your IVF doses. I read it before my appointment and am replying now I have got back. So now I can answer your question about my next IVF protocol now we have made final plans.

I said perhaps our decision for 450 Puregon is too high and might not help make more eggs, but just overdose and fry the ones I do produce. My Dr said that with Panadol for example, it always contains exactly 500mg paracetamol. But when it comes to hormones such as Puregon, they can't measure the exact dose; they can only test the bio-availability of the hormone (whatever that means?) and therefore, each cartridge of Puregon might contain = or - 20% of what it is meant to be. She said 450 wouldn't be doing harm to my eggs and I was very reassured by having just read your post and knowing that you did two very different drug treatments and got embryos that made it all the way to blast both times. So thank you.

I then asked about taking my Puregon in two doses this time and she thought that was an excellent idea and help my body have a steady flow of the drug instead of a bigger dose and nothing for 24 hours- especially if my body metabolizes the medicine fast.

Lastly Blue, I don't recall you speaking of the scratch. Is that something you do? I remember reading that this increases implantation success by 20%. Then, as my Dr was performing mine today, she said the current theory on how it helps is because the damage to the lining causes an immune response and this immune response helps with implantation. I thought of you since your issue seems to be purely and implantation one and wanted to share.