Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (2)

[purplemeggie]

I see we've filled up the thread and thought I'd better start another one. How's everyone doing?

Inconceivable, I'm so sorry. What dreadful, dreadful news. Have you been to your clinic yet? It's the hardest thing to process while you're going through it and can feel so terribly isolating, but I promise you you're not alone in this. Sending you enormous hugs.

Hen, I would be more positive, I think. 8 is not a bad number and they're all really similar sizes, which means they will probably develop equally. My consultant at King's insisted that you don't want any more than 10 in order to ensure quality, so I reckon 8 means they'll all be nice and richly nourished once they're ripe for picking.

Annie and Blue, it's so good to see you again!

Claudiddy Good luck today!

There are so many new names on this thread! I hope everyone is doing well, whether you're just beginning or awaiting the big day.

I'm on my second cycle of trying to work out if I've ovulated after my surgery in August it's definitely looking better than last month I've got the OPK, the monitor and the thermometre all going and they seem to think I ovulated yesterday or will today, so fingers crossed!

At the clinic the scan found further clots still inside and no fetal sac visible. So upsetting.
So, it seems it's all over. I did take along most of what I'd passed (can't remember who said to save it, but thanks, it was helpful) and Dr examined it after the scan but said it was just clots and they found no fetal or placental tissue. So, at that point they said to continue the pessaries and tablets as normal in the unlikely event that there's something still developing. They took blood to run an HCG test which they'll repeat on Monday morning which should give final clarity on the situation. I'm resigned that it's just a formality though.
I also have an appt at local EPU next Friday and clinic gave me prescription for strong co-codamol in anticipation that passing the remaining clots etc could become very painful.
I asked about testing any fetal / placental tissue that I pass and manage to retain and apparently local EPU won't test anything on a first miscarriage. Clinic will investigate private prices for me but didn't seem to encourage towards it, saying rather that a loss now is v likely to be a genetic blip as we have a son from the same embryo batch.

Battery - I echo what Emma said. My fresh cycle which gave us our son and our frosties was also at King's like Emma and we were also told that slow stimming on as low a dose of stims as possible was best, both in terms of egg quality and avoiding OHSS. I got the latter mildly anyway and it's far from nice. I stimmed for around 10 days on 150 Gonal F and got 11 eggs (or was it 12?). Can't remember total follicle count but I think most contained an egg.

Thanks for all the support all. Much appreciated. Annie, yours are wise words.

I'm so, so sorry inconceivableme I really am. Is your MIL still there? Could you suddenly have a bout of something horrible and very contagious so she would have to go home?

There are times when you need to put yourself front and centre, and this is one of them.

Do you think having the testing would make you feel better? I.e. to give you some closure that it wasn't your fault? I know it wasn't, but do you think actually having that in black and white on front of you would help you? If so, I would be inclined to pay for the testing. What price peace of mind?

I'm sorry to witter on about myself when you are having so much of a worse time if it inconceivableme but I am so unsure what to do - clinic are calling me later and I need to have made a decision.

I know 10 eggs is the optimal number, but I have only 8 follies. Assuming 70% contain an egg, that gives 5.6 eggs, assuming 70% of them are mature, that then goes down to 3.92. If 70% fertilise, than then falls to 2.74 fertilised eggs.

The odds of success seemed small in the first place, but they just seem non-existant now. I feel quite unwilling to pay close to £8,000 for what is very likely to be a failed cycle.

Might be better to just abandon this one and try again next month...

Does anyone know where the miscarriage section of Mumsnet is please? I assume there is one but can't find it.

I think it's in the body & soul section

Thanks Battery.

I'm really not sure what I'd do in your situation btw. I can't recall sorry, is this your first cycle or have you previously done other cycles with different protocols which have produced more eggs, regardless of cycle outcome? x

Hi inconceivableme there is a thread in Conception called "ttc after miscarriage - the best shit place to be" that may help. I also found a brilliant thread about the practicalities of miscarriage I'll have a search for it.

Hope you're feeling better after seeing the clinic, it sounds like you're over the worst physically.

Yes, like battery said, it's under Body and Soul called "tips for coping with the practicalities of miscarriage" and other helpful threads there too.

batterypoweredhen I can understand your logic,it's so random though... It's a very difficult decision. Especially when you get to this point, you just want to do it. Do you get offered advice at clinic about going ahead or not?

Thanks for your words of wisdom - I guess my dilemma is that I could cancel now, and then probably aim for another cycle in December with a more appropriate protocol/dosage of meds. If I continue and the cycle is unsuccessful, then I am about £8,000 out of pocket and will probably have to wait at least a couple of cycles to try again.

I'm wary of putting too much trust in the clinic tbh - the cynic in me says that I am now one of their 'cycle started' stats, so if I do cancel, that will def be an unsuccessful cycle for their figures. If I continue, even if there is a 2% chance of success, that is better for them than the definite 0% if I cancel, if that makes sense?

They are calling me shortly to discuss so will try to keep an open mind until then...

Hen
8 sounds good.
Not sure where youre getting the less eggs than follicles by so much.
Most should have an egg but only if large enough, i believe like say 15mm only have a 50% chance of an egg. I think maybe some people can get eggs from very small follicles so say have 20 follicles and get 20 eggs so the clinic counts those ones too.
I cancelled when 3 grew. But i have pcos so that was ridiculous to continue +low fert rates 20-50% with icsi and > 50% immature on the previous cycle, it would have been almost certain id have no embryos (+a possible hydro). It cost £900 for cancelled cycle plus the meds, felt like a waste. But i started again on next period as on LP
Had a failed cycle with 9 collected as only 4 mature... But i had lots of follicles like 20 and i was triggered too early probably causing the immaturity. (Largest only 18mm, and 3 were 15.)
Ive had eggs 10->7 mature
9->4 mature
13->12 mature

I guess it depends on your follicle count if it was much higher.
How many are likely to be mature... So how many are falling into the 24-15mm range.

You could risk quality for quantity.
Until youve had a go you wont see how you many eggs you get or your fertilisation rate.
If you consider what you said - you do have 0 chance this cycle if you cancel.
It sounds expensive my icsi was about £4500 for scans and op + then drugs.
Maybe your clinic could give their usual outcome with 8 follicles.

Unless you are lucky you could find with a higher dose they grow at a different rate and you get a large gap in sizes so they dont all mature at once, not sure what controls that.

Its a pity the op is so expensive as its worth collecting any as it only takes 1. Also as i found the op the easiest bit.

Thank you all very much for the good wishes. I have just got my first lot of blood results back - hcg was 168, which my nurse said was fine, so I am being very cautiously optimistic right now. But the real indicator will be when they test my blood again on Monday and Wednesday to see if the numbers are rising appropriately - or not.

inconceivableme I am so sorry to hear your terrible news I can't imagine how incredibly awful and upsetting your loss has been - especially when you have MIL visiting and are presumably being expected to put a brave face on rather than being able to curl up and howl at the unfairness of it all. I hope your DH and your DS are being a comfort to you during this utterly crappy time.

I imagine you have already made your decision about to proceed or not Hen but I agree with naty that 8 follicles really isn't bad, especially when they are all growing at such nice similar rates - unless you had reason to really think you were going to produce a lot more follicles than that?

I had 11 follicles ranging between 17-22mm at my retrieval and got 11 eggs, 10 of which were mature. I think it is more uncommon to have such a discrepancy between number of follicles of the correct size and numbers of eggs. I thought the 70% figure was more of a minimum expectation for most people - so at least 70% of follicles should have an egg, and usually more.

That said, 8k (!) is a huge amount of money to spend if you don't feel remotely optimistic about the outcome and feel sure you might do better another time. I hope you have managed to come to a decision you can be comfortable with.

Battery, I assume you have made your decision by now, but when I saw your post with your scan results, I immediately thought is was great.

Those 70% statistics might be true when collated from all IVF cycles, but does not apply to your case.

All follicles contain eggs. It's just that some follicles are smaller and the egg immature so it does not come free when it is flushed. 70% of mature eggs will be achieved when you have 70% of your follicles mature. But you have 8 follicles growing so close together between 9-12mm which is fantastic and means they will mature at the same time. Most women have some at 15 while some are at 6mm, and hence they get immature eggs from the smaller follicles when the larger ones have matures. I am actually jealous and wish I could tell my ovaries to produce such co-ordinated growth.

I can certainly understand your fears when $8000 is so much to fork out and fear that it might not work out. I can't guarantee that it will work out, but I don't think your problem will lie in the number of mature eggs you get. If you have chosen to go ahead, I am very confident that you will be happily surprised at the number of mature eggs you get... I would guess 8 mature eggs, definitely not 3.92.

Emma, seems like quite a science working out if you've ovulated with all your gadgets! Glad they all seem to point to the same conclusion to give you confidence. I am familiar with the OPK and thermometer, but what is this monitor you speak of??

Morning all,

Right, had a chat with my consultant at the Lister who has basically echoed what you have all said. He has upped my dose of gonal f to 200iu a day for the next 3 days to see if I can recruit a few more follies. He said that as all the follies I do have are a similar size, it couldn't do any harm. I've also started cetrotide too.

The stats I quoted are the figures the lister gave me extrapolated from all the cycles they have ever done, so I think it reasonable to give them a fair amount of weight. They are the mean figures, so sone women will have more, some fewer. Being relatively young (for ivf purposes) hopefully mine will be a bit better?

I'm expecting this cycle to cost about £8-10k all in (£3,600 for the cycle, £1,850 for IMSI and when you add in blastocyst culture, embryoscope and GA for embryo transfer, us staying in London the night before EC and ET etc it really mounts up)

Anyway, thanks for your support yesterday, it was a bit of a difficult day and I was very grateful that you were all here

Sorry for the me, me, me post. How is everyone else getting on?

I had a dozen eggs collected yesterday morning. The embryologist rang this morning to say I've got five fertilising so ought to be ready for transfer on Monday lunchtime. Feel a bit nausey and my ovaries are pinging away like elastic bands but it isn't at all bad.

That's great news Claudiddy!

Battery - hopefully you feel reassured by the update from your consultant. The cost really does mount up though, especially when extra procedures are added. I can understand you wanting to get bang for your buck, so to speak.

Yaaaay! Fabulous news claudiddy How exciting! I can't wait to be where you are - not long now till your BFP, I am sure

inconceivableme Yes, I do feel reassured, I did have a rather sobering conversation with the nurse beforehand though. She, whilst being lovely, is quite no nonsense and said that with my AMH (12.8) it would be unlikely for me to have the dozen or so follies that I was hoping for, even if I did try again .

Oh well, let's hope the upping of the gonal-f has the desired effect - I was really hoping for 2 x blast transfer and ideally a couple of frosties too. I think I might just need to manage my own expectations a bit.

Also, I am taking some comfort in the knowledge that it looks like DH's low count and motility (but good morphology) is to blame for our problems, there is nothing to indicate any issues with my eggs and I am only just 35. Hopefully the IMSI will solve the sperm issues and the eggs will all be just peachy

More importantly how are you feeling? Is your MIL still there? I feel for you, I really do. I understand that feeling of having all your hopes and dreams snatched away from you in the cruellest way. It is the worst feeling in all the world and I hope you are being well looked after

J

Oops phone malfunction wasnt writing anything

Claudiddy - congratulations on your EC are they going for a 5 day ET then? what was the process at Wessex? I know that they plan to do Day 5 ET but did they say it might end up being Day 3 depending on how the embryos development? I'm interested in finding out whether you prepare to go in for Day 3 and when they'd call you and let you know when your going in, on Day 2 or on the morning of Day 3?

I can't wait to start my cycle I can't believe its only two weeks away but seems strange its so close to Xmas.

Hello lovely ladies. I've had my cousin staying all week - helping me to declutter my house, which is why I've been quiet.

Inconceivable - I'm so very sorry. Horrible and heartbreaking thing to happen, especially when you've tried so hard and waited so long for your BFP. Sending you a big hug. xxx

Orange - lovely news, congratulations xxx

I don't have any news, just waiting. We were supposed to see our consultant this week, but I had to postpone the appointment as I had to go to a funeral, so we're going next Wednesday instead. The cousin who's been staying is the mother of the fabulous girl who has offered to donate eggs, and I'm hoping to see her - and her boyfriend- next weekend, to talk through what's involved and make sure she really wants to go ahead.

Ah, but then you will have a festive BFP, frazoz. It might even have tinsel around it

Sorry for your loss purple, but I hope you are able to have a good chat with your cousin and her daughter.

What a lovely family you have, that must be such a comfort to you.

Nothing really to report here, off for another scan tomorrow, so of course I'm now having a mini-flap that the increased dose of gonal-f will have caused my existing 8 follies to have disappeared or something.

On the plus side, the injections are so much less of an issue than I thought they would be. I really just don't even feel the needle go in at all -they are completely different from the ones they use when you are having a blood test. I clearly have the hide of a rhino

Frazoz - I'm expecting my egg transfer tomorrow, day three after retrieval.

I think the clinic staff tell you the broadest possible timescale in the first instance and revise it down depending on how everything develops - so for me I started with the expectation of scans on Mon, Weds and Fri, but at the Weds scan the consultant said she was pleased with the size of follicles (they grow 2mm every 24hrs) and booked my egg retrieval on Fri (which seems like aeons ago but was actually just two days ago!). Based on her expertise she said to "probably" go for embryo transfer at day 3, so she booked both retrieval and transfer appointments during our consult. Everything is recorded in the clinic's booklet that we keep and take to each appointment.

Before we left the clinic on Fri, they told us we have 12 eggs and gave us written guidance on taking care of myself for a day or two after. The guidance told us to expect a phonecall from the embryologist by 2pm Saturday - he actually called me at 9am yesterday with the update and told me he'd ring again on Monday morning to confirm the time of the appointment, which the consultant had provisionally booked for 13:40.

So in the morning they might change the appointment, who knows! Totally out of my control so I choose to think of them all partying away in their petri dishes until tomorrow. I genuinely feel that I am in safe hands with the clinic - in terms of preparation I just owe it to them to shave my legs and cut my toenails beforehand!