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Social workers are under direct financial and career pressure to take children away from their parents - today's Mail

168 replies

edam · 15/08/2005 13:38

Anyone who has followed Bunglie's saga will know how frightening social services practise towards some parents can be. Hopefully not in every case, but the attitude of professionals towards mothers accused of harming their children left/leaves a lot to be desired in terms of objectivity and evidence-gathering.

Today's Mail takes this onto new ground. I'd already heard from my sister, who works in this field, examples of parents with learning difficulties being treated as 'guilty until proved innocent' in terms of their capacity to look after their own children.

In p. 8 & 9 today's Mail carries a story on social workers removing children from people with learning difficulties. They include an opinion piece by Prof Tim Booth, prof social policy at Sheffield who has some interesting things to say about discrimination by soc. services: '[this is] a form of abuse by the system whereby people are made worse off by the services that are supposed to help them. It is rampant, pervasive and destructive of family life, and far more prevalent than ... child abuse. ...system abuse, more than child abuse, is the precipitating factor behind the high rates of child removal.'

Together with the Government's policy to 'encourage' all mothers of young children back to work whether they want to or not, and proposals for massive database storing information about all our children (and sparking social services investigations if two 'red flags' are raised - like a health visitor saying a baby is 'not gaining enough weight' and a later trip to A&E because the same child falls out of a tree), I'm very worried. It seems the Government is, whether deliberately or not, undermining the private sphere of family life and turning itself into the childcatcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

What do you think?

OP posts:
Caligula · 17/08/2005 10:49

I just wish that stories like yours could be told Awen, so that people could be made aware that these horrible cases do happen. My response to my friend saying "don't tell anyone if you get PND" really was that she was hysterical and scaremongering, but her attitude was based on the fact that she knew of cases like yours.

And of course, because everyone is not allowed to talk about their experiences, no-one believes that it happens. We need to know that this happens, so that we can stop it happening. But of course, as long as women are gagged, the wider public is not going to know, and it is going to continue to happen.

MamaMaiasaura · 17/08/2005 21:39

I would hope with the fact that expert witness evidence is being bought into question would have an effect on the 'gagging'. However mine was a family court not criminal case so the importance and public interest does not seem to be focused there. Unfortunatly i think you are right that this will continue to happen till there is more awareness. I really thought thought that those involved in child care had a greater understand of PND but the sw and gal appeared really 'bigoted' against mental illness in its essence and didnt care to understand the differences between illnesses.

Jimjams · 18/08/2005 10:29

Saddened but not shodked by Awen's post. Horrified by Tatler's post. Chldren's development is sooooo inbuilt I am shocked by the number of people who don't understand that. When ds1 was just short of 2 I was told that I "must be talking over him" and that was why he wasn't talking. Well at 6 he still isn't, - and he's severely autistic. The thought that his lack of speech could have ended up with him being taken into care (and a reasonable number of mothers with autistic children have been accused of MSBP incidentally). Tatler if you get a dx of verbal dyspraxia- please complain in writing!

Also heard of a case recently. A severely autistic (and misdiagnosed for years) woman- aged about 19 I think- went a day centre every day. Her mother always picked her up. Then she had a back operation and was unable to pick her daughter up. The father went instead. T his was the "wrong" routine and the daughter went ballistic. SS decided that the father "must' be abusing the daughter and removed her from her parents care. Eventually managed to get her back.

SS, HV etc often seem to have very little understanding about anything developmental/medical. Unfortunately they also think they are experts.

Caligula · 18/08/2005 10:42

Awful, JJ. And you're so right - it's not just that they don't understand issues of non NT children - they don't know they don't understand the issues. What the hell is this training gap that's going on?

And of course, the anti mother culture looms very large in all these stories.

homemama · 18/08/2005 10:48

Think I posted this on another thread but seems to fit here to;
A&E doctor friend of ours told us that if a worried mother brings her child into casualty, they should casually ask if he/she has any brothers or sisters in order to determine if she (mother) is a neurotic first time mum.
Why are a mother's instincts never taken seriously?

Caligula · 18/08/2005 11:01

Because of mysogyny, homemama. And the attitude that women are not to be trusted. We're either neurotic and over-protective (and therefore harmful to our children's development), or we're all secretly trying to murder our kids without anyone noticing (and therefore even more harmful to our children's development.)

Either way, we should probably all have our children taken away from us and given to someone who can do the job better. Trouble is, nobody actually specifies who!

monkeytrousers · 18/08/2005 11:11

Other nice women probably - but who can be constantly monitored non the less..

homemama · 18/08/2005 11:15

Back to days of giving us hysterectomies to cure our hysteria no doubt!

monkeytrousers · 18/08/2005 11:28

Things haven't changed much, the attitude that women are feckless fruitcakes still prevails, I reckon.

tatler · 18/08/2005 11:44

Jimjams-your post brought tears to my eyes,it was like at last someone understands and is really listening to me.
When the hv referred my children without any discussion with me first she came round with a social worker and said they were being referred as my mental illness was holding back my childrens development.She then went on to say the speceh therapist had mentioned dyspraxia after only seeing my son twice.I was totally shocked and upset on hearing this word i knew nothing about.When i questioned her about what this was and was it my fault she could not answer my questions.On talking to the speech therapist she said she would never diaginose on a second visit and wanted a speciallist's opinion,we are still waiting for an appointment.
I think the hv should never have mentioned he may have dyspraxia it was not her place and she was not qualified to answer my questions or put my mind at rest.

I know my pnd and anxiety attacks made me unable to go out at times and my ds just 4 and dd 2 did'nt always go to mother and toddlers groups as much as they should but development wise they are coming along fine as any assesment's they have had have proved.The speech for ds is delayed which he is having therapy for but to be told this is your fault to me has knocked me for six and my self esteem as a mother has gone way down.

I know i should put this behind me but this hv may well go ahead and do this to another family and i feel something should be said.

Like you say some hv are not trained in these areas how can they understand this

Homemama and Caligula you are so right,you are made to feel being over protective and neurotic is damaging to your childrens development.Why don't they listen to the mother,really listen.

expatinscotland · 18/08/2005 11:48

This is SO frightening! I had PND as well. And my daughter has GDD. To think . . .

My daughter is a dual national and my entire family lives in the US. My sister and her husband are her appointed guardians in both my husbands' and my wills.

If there is even an INKLING of rubbish like this going on, I wouldn't hesistate to go back there w/my kids and live at home or w/my sister.

Jimjams · 18/08/2005 12:02

awww tatler ds2 missed out on lots of mothers and toddlers groups because of ds1, but he's fine and ditto ds3. It's not necessary when they're little. I think from about the age of 3 it is important to mix, but not before. I sent ds2 to nursery at 2 as he was copying his autistic brother- but he never developed like him- it just doesn't work like that.

verbal dyspraxia is a tricky one to diagnose, but it can never be due to environment- it is neurological (and very very treatable).

tatler · 18/08/2005 12:18

Thanks you so much for your replys.
I don't know very much about verbal dyspraxia but have been seraching on the net for information.
In the meetings with the hv and sw I still stood by my beliefs and refused to accept their reasons for the referral.
It is interesting that you say jimjams it is never due to enviroment and is neurological.
That was never explained to me by the speech therapist and i feel a bit let down that the speech therapsit did not fight more corner more knowing that.

Expatinscotland-What is GDD?
Have you had any dealings with hv?

RedZuleika · 18/08/2005 12:41

I'd thought that this stuff about neurotic first time mother might have died a death since I was little - so I'm quite surprised to see people suggesting it's still going on. My mother used to get it a lot as I am an only child: for example, she took me to an optician in 1976 who couldn't find anything wrong, despite my complainings, and said 'Is this your only child, Mrs X?'. Six months later, we'd moved to the US and I was wearing glasses - as my eyesight deteriorated at a great rate of knots...

Apart from the negligence aspect of a health professional failing to do their job because of a 'neurotic mother' hobbyhorse, querying the size of the family of a woman with major fertility problems looms very large on a scale of tactlessness.

happymerryberries · 18/08/2005 12:55

A mate of mine was treated as a neurotic mother when she took him to see the doc in the 60s. She was told to 'take him away and try harder' with him. Now as an adult he has three sons on the ASD spectrum and is obviously high functioning aspergers himself. She was just sent away feeling a failure

Ironicaly, on the other end of the spectrum I teach several kids who( to my eyes at any rate) are being retrurned from care to parents who repeatedly abuse them, by social workers who seem to be insiting that the child is always better off in the family.

happymerryberries · 18/08/2005 12:56

Sorry, mate of mine's Mother was treated as neurotic

tatler · 18/08/2005 13:19

Discussion about this subject on radio 2 at the moment with jeremy vine

jayzmummy · 18/08/2005 13:28

Ive just had a long chat with our SW (who dealt with our adoption) about the 40% increase in children being placed with adoptive families. The government want a 40% increase in children who are "looked after" to be placed with adoptive families.

Currently in our area there are 157 children in the system and all are waiting for a new family....the socail worker has 12 families approved to accept a placement and since January this year only 4 further families have come forward to be assessed for adoption.

There simply are not enough families out there to accomodate the children who have been removed from the care of their biological familiesand the government want to address this problem by offering fast track assessments and approval.

I have several family members who are adopted and I am an adoptive parent. My sister (who has Aspergers) is currently in the process of adopting two children.

Ive been scared sh*tless by HV's and SW's because in the early days I was treated as a neurotic mother. Ive had my parenting capabilities questioned and DH and I have been accused of having MSBP. DS2 has ASD and I was told that his difficulties were caused by my inability to accept him as my son!!!!WTF????

tatler · 18/08/2005 14:36

Bump

MamaMaiasaura · 18/08/2005 16:07

I have just spoken with my solicitor because at present residence order is in favour of father although ds now lives with me. Looking at getting things 'legalised' but have been advised to hold back for a longer period. Partly because the person involved would have left country. It has re-opened some of the terror I felt in the original proceedings and I am in ters petrified that someone will come and take ds away from me again. really really frightened.

tatler · 18/08/2005 18:17

Hi Awen,so sorry to hear you are going through this.It must be awful to have to re live this nightmare again.
Have you got any family their for you for support?
How long do you think you will have to wait before you can get everything legalised?

Sending you my best wishes and hope everything turns out well for you.
The system is crap and needs changing Imo
Be strong xx

tatler · 18/08/2005 21:28

Bump

Jimjams · 18/08/2005 21:30

tatler- GDD is global developmental delay.

Have you seen the apraxia kids website- it's good (apraxia is the US term for verbal dyspraxia- sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs).

tatler · 18/08/2005 21:42

Thanks jimjams i will take a look at that site.Did not know apraxia was the us term.
It can be so confusing trying to understand what dyspraxia really is as their seems so many theorys on the subject.

Is GDD similar to dyspraxia then,sorry to be ignorant have not heard of this.

expatinscotland · 18/08/2005 21:44

Tatler
I'm not familiar w/dyspraxia. All my daughter's skills - gross and fine motor, cognitive, etc. - have been delayed. The cause has yet to be determined, however. It was first recognised at her 8 month checkup, when she was unable to sit up unaided.

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