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Social workers are under direct financial and career pressure to take children away from their parents - today's Mail

168 replies

edam · 15/08/2005 13:38

Anyone who has followed Bunglie's saga will know how frightening social services practise towards some parents can be. Hopefully not in every case, but the attitude of professionals towards mothers accused of harming their children left/leaves a lot to be desired in terms of objectivity and evidence-gathering.

Today's Mail takes this onto new ground. I'd already heard from my sister, who works in this field, examples of parents with learning difficulties being treated as 'guilty until proved innocent' in terms of their capacity to look after their own children.

In p. 8 & 9 today's Mail carries a story on social workers removing children from people with learning difficulties. They include an opinion piece by Prof Tim Booth, prof social policy at Sheffield who has some interesting things to say about discrimination by soc. services: '[this is] a form of abuse by the system whereby people are made worse off by the services that are supposed to help them. It is rampant, pervasive and destructive of family life, and far more prevalent than ... child abuse. ...system abuse, more than child abuse, is the precipitating factor behind the high rates of child removal.'

Together with the Government's policy to 'encourage' all mothers of young children back to work whether they want to or not, and proposals for massive database storing information about all our children (and sparking social services investigations if two 'red flags' are raised - like a health visitor saying a baby is 'not gaining enough weight' and a later trip to A&E because the same child falls out of a tree), I'm very worried. It seems the Government is, whether deliberately or not, undermining the private sphere of family life and turning itself into the childcatcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

What do you think?

OP posts:
MamaMaiasaura · 16/08/2005 00:04

tatler - i think that sometimes they are looking for issues as they are so scared of missing something iykwim. Then they miss the kids that actually are being abused etc.

I really feel for you and thank god the sw was changed. They should have been supporting you instead of making you feel threatened.

tatler · 16/08/2005 00:21

I agree awen,I must say both the sw and hv had a threatening manner and i was very scared of them.
I know they have to do their job but to be referred for having pnd and my darling ds who is having speech problems ,both of which culd not be avoided is unbelieveable.

The hv has a duty i know to the children but surely she has a duty to the mother's wellbeing and she knew i had pnd and did she honestly think referring me to ss and putting all that extra presure and blame on me was going to help.
I already felt like an awful mother and had lost all my confidence she was just confirmong this for me.

MamaMaiasaura · 16/08/2005 00:34

I really understand your viewpoint and you are right IMO tatler. Am absolutely shattered tho and am off to bed - nite x

tatler · 16/08/2005 00:58

Nite awen

monkeytrousers · 16/08/2005 08:57

I wonder sometimes about those working in family law or child protection who don't have children themselves. I don't think it's possible to understand teh bond between parent and child if you haven't experienced it yourself.

Lke I said in another thread a while ago, a friend of mine worked in the family courts and had no compunction about taking children away from their mothers. But after she had kids herself she very quickly felt alot of guilt about what she'd done.

katierocket · 16/08/2005 09:06

god Awen, that's horrendous. Glad everything is OK now.

katierocket · 16/08/2005 09:06

god Awen, that's horrendous. Glad everything is OK now.

tatler · 16/08/2005 10:03

Monkeytrousers-totally agree with you about people working in this area who do not have children of their own.
My hv did not have children and I thought all along how can she truly understand what I was going through.

monkeytrousers · 16/08/2005 10:16

Been reading the thread backwards, so just got to your original post Edam and, if the targets are as you say, then that is very scary. Is it possible to find out if they are for those already in care though, as KR points out?

Caligula · 16/08/2005 10:30

Even if they are for children already in care, I'm really not sure it's appropriate to have targets in this sort of area. A child placed inappropriately, is just as badly off as a child not placed at all imo, and having targets inevitably raises the possibility that SS depts will start to place children in adoptive families that they otherwise wouldn't do, in order to meet the target.

Just as police officers start arresting people for minor technical offences they would normally ignore, when they haven't met their targets yet and their monthly review is coming up.

That is the inevitable result of targets, whatever walk of life you're in.

monkeytrousers · 16/08/2005 10:36

Yes, your right.

Another case of instituionalised discriminstion and misogyny. It never ends..

Easy · 16/08/2005 10:40

Don't have time to read this whole thread right now, but find edam's posting very interesting.

I know that when I first had ds, I was terrified that a HV or someone would feel I couldn't cope (I'm physically disabled) and would try to have ds put in care.

Caligula · 16/08/2005 10:45

I think stories like Awen's are so depressing. I remember a friend of mine saying: "If you get PND, just don't tell your doctor or HV or anyone, because they'll take the baby away from you."

I told her she was an hysterical scare-monger and that the major problem was that women don't ask for help, and they need to. I'm now beginning to think maybe she was giving sounder advice than I thought at the time. It's so terrible to think that women aren't being given support when they need it and that they may well be put off looking for support by the fear that their children will be taken away if they admit they need help.

TwinSetAndPearls · 16/08/2005 14:26

I have had the oposite experince to Awen, although would not wish to challenge or question her experiences.

I was hospitalised with PND with my dd, when I left hospital and came to live here I phoned SS ( as advised by my hospital) to say I had moved to the area and had mental health issues and would be grateful for any support, advice or help. I never heard from them again, I actually phoned back to check they had a record of me as I didn't want them to think I was trying to slip through the system. the duty SS said are you coping to which I said "yes considering" to which he replied fine we will file you as dealt with!!!!!

I was fine, and have coped but how were they to know that??

I put this down to living in an area in which SS are very overstretched.

TwinSetAndPearls · 16/08/2005 14:30

I have also been to the doctors today about my depression and was given ( in a very nice way) a ticking of for not asking for help sooner.

When I expressed a concern that my mothering skills may have been called into question as I had depression he assured me that this would not be the case, even with someone who had my very serious health record. He said the only way this could happen is if the mother had not sought help and this had lead her to neglecting or harming her children. But even then SS would work with her to improve the situation. From what I have seen through work this is how SS work in this area. Seems barmy that once again there is a postcode lottery working.

Caligula · 16/08/2005 14:31

Definitely looks like a postcode lottery doesn't it, as with so many areas of life...

Caligula · 16/08/2005 14:32

Glad you're getting some positive advice from the doctor's Twinset

monkeytrousers · 16/08/2005 15:00

That sound positive Twinset. I'm glad. Do you feel a bit better?

TwinSetAndPearls · 16/08/2005 15:29

I am feeling better today, although a bit to be back on AD but if they work that is all that matters.

Went away with a bit of a bee in my bonnet about not being able to continue the appointments with dd about her tantrums and being upset, but as dp said the doctor didn't say he wouldn't carry on the referral but he wanted to know more information. It was just the way he said " so basically you are worried about a pre school child having tantrums>"

monkeytrousers · 16/08/2005 16:38

Don't be sad Twinset. I'm on ad's too and I'm very happy now! Can't you tell?? If your anything like me they'll also help to stop projecting all of my negativity on those around me, IYSWIM. In four weeks the doc might not seem so brusque. If he is, you'll know it wasn't you then!

TwinSetAndPearls · 16/08/2005 21:31

Thanks MT.

TwinSetAndPearls · 16/08/2005 22:05

Although being told that I look like nana Moon from Eastenders has set me back weeks I think.

MamaMaiasaura · 16/08/2005 22:15

only just caught up with this thread aince i posted. Caligua - I understand what you were saying about experiences like mine being quite depressing. I personally would not have believed it possible except for the fact of it really happening and not having my ds with me for 3 years. I have wanted to 'go public' with my experineces but worried about the implications on my ds and also the fact of the confidentiality of family court. I wasnt 'allowed' to discuss my case with members of my own family even when reports made by sw and gal were directly quoting them. I did speak with family tho only to find that they hadnt said what had been said - tho we couldnt argue as they werent allowed to see papers.

Anyway to cut a long sotry as short as I can - my way of coping - to get all the help i need and really use it. This included medication. I sourced my own counselling and went for 2 years. I changed carerr from finance to temping - ended up working for nhs as secretary to important person who thought i would be good nurse - hence career in care started. Initially as hcsw then nurse training - starting final yearseptember. Been 4 and half years since he was literally taken. I am stronger than ever and if i did ever get pnd i would terrified but i would be monitored alot earlier on as only diagnosed with ds when he was about 9/10 months old. I have also chosen to train as a mental health nurse - i do not want to work in peri natal care tho but interested in adolescent or acute settings.

I do believe it is according to who has your case, their experiences and knowledge and where you live as well.

monkeytrousers · 17/08/2005 10:04

heheh

monkeytrousers · 17/08/2005 10:08

That chuckle was for TSaP, sorry.

Good good for you Awen.

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