So free school meals for children of low income familes to be scraped

[ruckyrunt]

and only if you live on unemployment benifit will your children get free school meals

Nothing like not giving any incentive to go back to work then.

This gives those people living on benifit another reason not to work and claim tax credits and working tax credits

it was proposed to give low income fmailies free school meals in junior school.

Its the children that suffer, the little mites do end up going hungry whilst money is spent elsewhere

misdee.. dp gets 15% thats pretty good combined with my asda discount of 10% thats a good 25% of our shopping each week! He often gets good bargains,He came home with 5 lasagnes for a pound the other day because they were end of line or something so we had a very cheap dinner that day!

My dp used to work for the co op years ago. is your dp pt or ft with them?

People here on free school emals only get them for unemployment raosns anyway

the new extension really was just that but crucially picked up those who were missed- eg those whose self employed aprents or sytudent aprents were on incomes as low as many on unemploytment but not qualifying for whatever reason. Given that we will need a great many redundant people to retrain or start businesses with asscoaited low income time (big difference between starting out in some fields and getting straighht contract work and others where you need to reinvest all your profits in equipment etc to build it up) it seems another disincentive to pull yourself back on track.

p/t atm, as he needs to get his physcial strength up and his mental health up, but is hoping to get a f/t contract soon. he pputs in a lot of hours. and actually got praise from his boss last week, which is rare indee3d.

Oh and ronald totally agree about CB in vouvhers with teh understanding that the worst aprents would just sell the vouchers on or if not able sell opn whatever they have bought; and there are a few benefits In would exempt from emans testing- DLA is to cover the extra cost of a proven disability, so tied to a pturpose, and I'm not sure about CA- CA is paid to people earning below an amount @ £100 and under 18 hours a week, but not based on partners income as it is supposed to be compensation for being forcibly limited to a single income.

wqoudln't make a damned difference to us actually, but if it's dome in when DH was earning loads and I had to give up my career becuase of the ASD I am not sure why I should have to do that and take the entire hit myself; I can think of a few famillies who would simply be heading towards SSD immediately.

BelleDameSansMerci and cory

Of course not.

If parents are neglecting their kids to the degree that they are not being fed, far more intervention than merely feeding the children is necessary.

Universal free school meals is very expensive solution which wouldn't address the actual neglect, but just its symptoms.

If CB is paid in vouchers them people will start complaining if they have to pay more from their own pocket to feed and clothe their dcs. People need to get the message that they must look after their own dcs and it is not the govenments job to do everything for them. Most parents are more than capable of managing a cash CB payment without going giddy at the thought of all the strongbow it can buy. Vouchers will increase dependance on the nanny state rather than encouraging people to take responsibility. Most 2 adult, 2 dcs 'average' familys getting £33 a week in CB will spend more than that amount on food and childrens clothes. If CB was in voucher form then it would guarentee £33 a week of groceries but it wouldn't guarentee that other income from employment/JSA/IS etc would be spent topping up the grocery budget to ensure the ds were well fed.

Much as I hate to admit it, I don't believe that universal free school meals are required.

Damn you, longfingernails, despite your right wing tendencies I like you...!

MissTrumpton but what about those parents who won't look after their children? What happens to the children? I'm not an expert in social sciences (unfortunately as I'm sure it would be a lot more interesting than what I actually do) but surely the kind of neglect we're talking about here is exactly the kind of the spiral/vicious circle that leads to out of control children/teenagers who know no better? I accept, however, that a free school meal is not going to address the problem.

I think the thing that saddens me is that while we all recognise the requirement for big and horrendous cuts to public services (although in this case, it's not a cut as it hasn't been rolled out) it seems like we're starting with the most vulnerable.

'it seems like we're starting with the most vulnerable. '

But it's always going to seem that way when we're talking about cutting benefits.

Cut NHS, guess whom is most affected?

Largest amount of money spent on social welfare is pensions and housing benefit.

But if you cut that, you start with another vulnerable group: the aged.

You cut housing benefit, you get a lot of folks homeless/evicted.

So you see, what do you do? Where do you start?

'The kind of parents who allow their children to go hungry (in this country) do not need more money - they need a massive kick up the arse.'

absolutely - it is job of parents to feed their children not the state. If the parents are unable or unwilling to do so then that is a child protection issue. There's no money - services are evaporating - the vulnerable will suffer & I am not going to weep when those who are perfectly capable of doing so are required to take some responsibility. Unfortunately I don't believe that it will protect vital services (such that they are).

expat you're right...

Belle, people who won't look after their children need a kick up the arse and to be re-educated wrt budgeting/shopping/cooking and how by providing 3 decent meals a day their children will learn better and have a brighter future. If they still won't feed their dcs even though they have the means to then those children need to be removed. Kyra Ishaq starved to death in a house with plenty of food because her parents wouldn't feed her. Her death was nothing to do with money and everything to do with cruelty and control. If a child is neglected/abused then giving them one meal a day is not a solution. If a child goes without food because the family is disorganised/chaotic and the parents cannot budget/cook then the family need better intervention than 'We will feed your child so you don't have to'. Bad decission making wrt spending money affects every aspect of a childs life and that can be addressed through education rather than by giving the families more benefits.

How many 16-25+yr olds have never worked & why not? Start with stopping their benefits rather thazn the elderly & those in need. The reflex of I'll go on the social needs to be stopped.

blue I have no idea of that statistic... Also would be interested to know if those who are able bodied but claim benefit have to do any kind of work at all. Also, and this is a genuine question, do University students also all sign on in the summer holidays? They used to when I was young but that's a long, long time ago!

aren't children from low income families statisticaly more likely to be obese?

just a thought...

Full time students aren't entitled to JSA. I don't know if it has always been the case but I graduated in 2000 and you couldn't claim during holidays then.

I was 35 in 2000. I'm ancient...

No, students are not entitled to JSA or housing benefit. (was the case when I graduated in 2001) I have no idea why one lot of young adults are expected to take out massive loans to finance their living costs whilst another lot are given their living expenses from the state.

I have always felt this was very unfair.

Sorry I graduated in 1995.

It isn't fair.

When I was 18 I went to uni and my parents income was taken into consideration for my grant ( I got about £200 a year) and I had to use student loans, overdrafts and parental support to live. My same age cousin left home, her loaded parents bought her a flat and she got HB to pay her parents rent. She also got associated benefits such as JSA/IS.

Why are students under 25 considered to be their parents responsibility but unemployed people are independent at 18?

" longfingernails Thu 10-Jun-10 10:45:31
BelleDameSansMerci and cory

Of course not.

If parents are neglecting their kids to the degree that they are not being fed, far more intervention than merely feeding the children is necessary."

Yes, but the problem is that there is already a shortage of good foster families. Our council are desperately trying to recruit them. It is all very well to say that all children should be removed from feckless parents- but where are we going to put them?

Student can't claim in the holidays no, it's assumed that they will work- one error in current system is that even carers cannot, despite being unable to work. The system however is deliberately structured to keep carers at home becuase it costs less to the state than either specilaist nursery provision or state care; that is hard reality. I can write you a post on how to enable most carers back to work but it woudl cost mroe than currrent carer expensiture and the government know that.

Students used to be able to claim HB back in the dark ages but that ended years and years ago. Way before my time I think )and I am mid theirties). Students with kids can only get WTC if working on top as well, no automatic entitlement.

Not saying it's wrong 9though if qualifications help people back into imndependent work then maybe there is a cse who knows?), just stating fact. I graduated in 2008 and Dh is a student now so am quite aware on that one!

CB should not be paid in vouchers, IMO it should be abolished and every child given a good quality free school meal. Then you know wher the oney is going and that kids are getting the benefit of it. And those who do provide a decent dinenr each day would still get the savings, only the feckless would lose. There would however (and this bit isn't my idea but from a policy group atatched to a surestart I once worked for) need to be a benefit increase overr the long summer hols to balance the additional main meal cost.

It still suprises me to this day that students are pretty much the only section of society expected to have to take out debt in order to live and feed themselves.

'It still suprises me to this day that students are pretty much the only section of society expected to have to take out debt in order to live and feed themselves. '

They can work, too. Carers excepted, and that needs to be addressed by the system as well, the restrictions on work that carers face.

But I'm surprised so many British students still expect to be full supported to live whilst they study.

Again, coming at this as a foreigner, most people I know work FT and study, or go into debt. Many joined the military to get fees/tuition paid for in return for service during and after their degree.

It's a choice to go to university, not by force.

Don't see why they should expect others to support them during that time.

Ditto anyone who is an adult and capable of working, student or no.

Hmm

Capable of working and able to find work. At the moment there isn;t enoughy so I woudln;t want people to starve if tehya re able but cannot locate any!

They will always be supporrted becuase many have kids etc; we cannot let kids go to the wall becuase of aprental idiocy.

WRT students- how many people are actually supported? They get a contribution: yet my Uni was possibly teh cheapest in the country to live at (at a guess) and the loan was still less than accomodation charge so it's a contribution towards support rather than a donation but I don;t have particular issue with the loan system except that I do feel it grates to be told stuidents are a financial PITA by people who ahd their own University fees and costs completely coverd. I mean, it's easy ebnough to discuss with some humility and acceptance of that isn't it? @students are a drain' so easy to replace with 'whilst acknowledging my own debt to funded education, it's a sad fact that in these times of fiscal restraint...'

there. Job done, truth acknowledged.

Although Willetts going on about making students study at regional centres and then being allocated to different uni boarrds if able made me PMSL. Does he have any idea of how Universities worlk? Dh's degree requires a speiclaist centre costing several million in equipment and designed specifically to suit (it is actually a totally blacked out cube full of theatre and lighting equipment: they also have access to mock television and recording studios at a Cardiff facillity owned by Uni).

My own degree was less needy fo special equiopment but I coudln't ahver sat any otehr University's exam- becuase 'religions and philosophy' ccovered so many aspects that it's rare to find two aplces teaching the same faiths: bath Spa does paganism for example, we did Jiansism- only way it''d work would be increased centralisation of modules and curriculum, against Tory doctrine, and then you'd ahve issues with Lecturers specialising ini areas other than the ones being taught.......

You can work as a student but it is more difficult. You have to fit work around lectures. I did a science based course so had 30-40 hours of lectures per week and we frequently weren't finished until 9pm. This means you can only work p/t usually only weekends in a minimum wage job. If you don't earn enough to live you are not entitled to income support, unlike the rest of society, and if you can't find a job you aren't entitled to JSA, unlike the rest of society. I managed to find a job working 8pm until 4am but I gave it up in my final year because I literally couldn't study effectively and work those hours. I am lucky my parents supported me.