Israel Flouts International Law Again and Murders Innocent People.

[jodevizes]

The Israeli armed forces have flouted international law by attacking civilian ships in international waters and killing civillians.
As usual they lied and said they were shot at first. Then they said they were attacked with sticks and knives. Well, pardon my ignorance, but if you are sailing in international waters, if you are attacked, you are justified in defending yourself. If this were off the Somalia coast, they would be called pirates.

They are slowly strangling the Gaza strip by denying it access to building materials so that the people can rebuild their houses and schools.

They are not joining talks to keep the Middle East nuclear free

What a shame George and Tony aren't still in power, they could have found another country to invade.

This has made my blood boil, its disgusting behaviour and as usual they will get away with it. Lets face it they have got away with a lot worse thanks to the pro Israeli lobby in the US
They are a law unto themselves and have no regard for humanity. As for that smarmy bastard Mark Regev, I am in fear for my new tv.

I hope you will all join me in my continued boycott of all Israeli products.

"The greatest triumph of the Iraq war was the destruction of the concept of international law, a liberal conceit," Richard Perle.

International law. Doesn't exist.

Surely if you refuse Israel arms then surrounding non democratic countries will invade and destroy Israel?

Arab states like Iran have continually stated their desire to wipe Israel off the earth or push the Israelis into the sea. I'm rather glad Iran and N. Korea don't have nuclear weapons. Arab states want absolutely no reconciliation with Israel and co-existence. Don't be naive about this.

The events on the flotilla however, are appalling. Incredibly stupid of the Israelis to give such ammunition to their opponents. Very badly handled and not justifiable.

However, I do understand they needed to search the boats in case they were carrying arms. How do we know they were just carrying building materials?

Although I'm also not convinced they were just innocent peace protestors. The Turkish Aid charity IHH has links to Hamas And please don't say Hamas is a legitimate government. They are thugs through and through and through and would rather kill their own - which they do regularly - than see peace with Israel.

Doesn't Egypt also blockade Gaza? Why is that then? And why does nobody talk of that and condemn that?

I do feel it's all very one sided in general in the media.

Coolfonz, actually I agree with you regarding terrorism. If you are fighting for a cause and possibly your survival, then you will use whatever means you have to hand. But you have to understand that the if the other side is better, armed, financed, organised then you will probably come off the worst though might not stop from you trying. Israel needs to show some restraint given they have the army, arms, power - their actions will hardly win hearts and minds but OTOH the Palestianains do nothing to help their cause considering the position they are in. I can't really blame them but Hamas in government and continuing to fire rockets into Israel will get them nowhere.

So surrounding states would invade Israel, yet Egypt also blockades Gaza? The fascist thugs in Egypt - Harvard educated US clients - are the second/third biggest recipient of aid from the US behind Israel/Colombia. Who else would invade? Jordan?

This is utter rubbish. Justification for torture, illegal nuclear weapons and the slaughter of children in the region. When you justify killing kids, you are truly lost. Obama won't do anything...

And the Iranian regime - like Israel - may also be a bunch of thugs but they haven't said they want to wipe out Jewish people, any half arsed attempt to look up the translation of Amedinehjad's speech would suffice. Not that he isn't a raving anti-Semite. After all where is the second biggest Jewish population in the region? It's in Iran.

Israel in its present form has no future. But neither do what is left of the Palestinians. All the people there are the living dead...

Who is justifying killing kids?

Hamas are hardly purer than the driven snow, are they? Indiscriminate firing of rockets? Come on. Don't be naive in thinking there are goodies and baddies here.

They're all a scary bunch of people controlling that region.

Oh yeah sure, I completely agree with the Hamas rockets tactic being utter idiocy. Its a form of martyrdom.

See, this is a long term problem.

When socialism and kinds of left-nationalism in the region sprung up after World War 2 what did the Europeans and US do? They enlisted the help of people like Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, military thugs in Iran to destroy democracy and roll it back. Now you have loads of right wing people trying to kill each other. No class solidarity, no internationalism, no hope...

Also remember in countries like the DRC, Rwanda, Burma many more have died than in Israel...

Support for Israel's military actions includes the wholesale slaughter of kids.

350 died in the massacre by Israel in Gaza, countless thousands died in Lebanon...Palestinian children are routinely shot with live rounds by the IDF.

Meanwhile Israel has taken 50% of the territory of the West Bank, taking people's farms, livelihoods by force...

It's very sad. But Israel is finished, it will just take 100 years or so that's all...until then it will be a running sore that power tries to exploit for its own ends...

Like North Korea, it's just an open wound in the region great power tries to use for political gain.

The creation of Israel remember was encouraged in a large part by outrageous racists and anti-Semites, the British Conservative and Labour parties, the Soviet Union, the French, the US...

coolfonz yes, Iran has said that it would like to 'wipe Israel off the map'.

I think it is ridiculous that people weigh in with this emotive langage like 'apartheid' and 'ethnic cleansing' while never acknowledging that Israel has the right to defend itself. Fgs, arms have been smuggled into Gaza, rockets are constantly being fired at Israel, whenever there is confrontation with palestinians they always put children in front and stand behind them with guns to get the biggest victim coverage in the press, never mind that they are leading their children into death. What do you think Israel should do? Roll over and be annihilated?

And of course we are not mentioning all the school buses and innocent children on them and elsewhere who have been blown up by suicide bombers.

And, as an aside, is nobody going to mention Turkey's hypocrisy, it's treatment of Armenians and, more recently and currently, Kurds?

"whenever there is confrontation with palestinians they always put children in front and stand behind them with guns"

You need help. Seriously, that is sick.

I still like to think it can be turned around, they have lived in more settled times. I used to be much more interested in Israel/Palestinan polices. Since kids I'm a bit behind the times and lost touch with it all - I need to read up, I guess. Would be interested to speak to my friends in Israel to get their reactions. When we live in the safety of the UK, it's really hard to imagine or understand the mindsets of both sides. As someone else said, it's not as simple as goodies and baddies.

coolfonz no, it is the tactics that are sick. Perhaps you should do a bit more research.

Bessie, I comfortably stand by my use of the 'emotive' apartheid because that is an accurate description of the situation in the occupied terrority of Palestine. Please, get some perspective.

what would you like Israel to do in the face of constant attacks? How do you think Israel would be better able to defend itself against people who will not give up until it is destroyed? Nobody is suggesting that everyone in Gaza is intent on the destruction of Israel. But a large proportion of them are, at any cost, and present a very real threat that Israel has to deal with the best it can.

I think Israel should move back into the territory granted to them by the international community in 1948, sort out how to provide restitution to the Palestinians whose homes they co-opted, and then go about making peace with their neighbors from a position of gratitude and humility rather than of justification and arrogance.

And no, I don't approve of the methods that Israel chooses to use to defend itself. I don't think they have the right to defend their existence by any means and at any cost. One could argue that withdrawing from all occupied territory could be an equally valid way of 'defending' Israel.

Is George Mitchell still being a mediator/negotiator?

They do use children as human shields. It's been on the news a lot. Just youtube it. And it is sick.

There is absolutely no way that either side has the moral victory here.

No way.

Well Bessie, for a start, Israel should maybe acknowledge that not all palestinians are terrorists and that their cry for reparation and restitution is legitimate.

slim22 Israel does acknowledge that not all Palestinians are terrorists but it does need to deal with the very clear thread that some palestinian groups are presenting. Unfortunately, Israel has very few options available to it in doing this because a number of these groups will not accept anything other than Israel's destruction.

I do not agree with you about reparation and restitution but that is another argument for another thread.

zazizoma your post is not worth responding to, you are being completely unrealistic about the threats Israel faces.

Maybe someone could explain to me why Israel continue to increase settlements in occupied territories. Surely that is provocative and has absolutely nothing to do with defending themselves.

I agree with zazizoma

but i dont believe it will ever happen sadly

"whenever there is confrontation with palestinians they always put children in front and stand behind them with guns to get the biggest victim coverage in the press, never mind that they are leading their children into death"

WHAT??? You cannot be serious! You have a crazily warped way of seeing things imo. It most definitely is an apartheid, no the large proportion of Palestinians don't want violence they just want to live fairly on their own land. I would however concede that the majority of O=Palastinians must be angry and harbour a great hatred of Israel as they have seen their homes destroyed; land (that in many cases they have the legal deeds to stolen); their children, parents, siblings, friends, spouses murdered needlessly; and have been forced to live like peasants.

Winkywonkola, it's been on youtube so it must be true . Although, I don't doubt that some dickheads have used children, women, the elderly as human shields it is in no way the majority. This is a tactic used throughout the world and in most if not every single war that has been fought in the last century. And the Israeli's do kill many children. Many children who foolishly and childishly throw their sticks and stones and armoured tanks. I've seen that on youtube to!

Zazizoma if it were an ideal world, or they had any morals, that is exactly what Israel would do!

Bessie, you keep going on about the threat's that face Israel and yet not once have I seen you mention tht they face those threats because of their own actions. The way they have treated the native people of the land have enraged (and quite rightly) the people of other countries who don't just want to sit there tutting and shaking their heads.

songbiird well there's the thing. I think you have a crazily warped view. I also think you base your assumptions on 'facts' that are wrong. I don't usually post on these threads because it is frustrating to see the tired old misconceptions that keep coming back from people who just want to see victims and a big, bad aggressor. You won't even acknowledge the points I raised about the threats Israel faces or the number of Israeli civilians murdered.

I know it probably seems like a cop out but I really can't be bothered to trot out a history lesson for you now.

Fine Bessie, dismiss my comments as naive if you wish, though it does make me suspect you are Israeli. I think Israel itself is naive about the threats it faces. It only ever sees a solution if it involves military strength, without recognising that this blindness is its greatest weakness.