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Mulitcultural England - good old Boris...

275 replies

Janh · 05/08/2005 01:22

From the Telegraph yesterday:

OP posts:
Nightynight · 25/08/2005 11:48

peachskin I agree with most of what you are saying, esp re nationalists (hate'em, burn all flags!) but Ive also think youve been a bit too quick to write off jan and moondog. theyve both posted many intelligent, interesting and very reasonable things in the past.

mumsnet is full of bigheaded intellectual showoffs with post grad degrees/top firsts/power jobs and opinions that can be defended logically to the death

iota · 25/08/2005 11:50

Nightynight -- I have an o level in Latin does that qualify me to defend the fact that Wales is beautiful?

Nightynight · 25/08/2005 11:58

Ive got one too so Im qualified to agree with you iota!

happymerryberries · 25/08/2005 11:59

I didn't get one, because I dropped Latin after 2 years. Can I still take part?

Or will I have to start my own thread? For the non classists???

iota · 25/08/2005 12:10

hmb - you lightweight- - we were told that we needed Latin to get into a good university

Blu · 25/08/2005 12:11

So, is that the end of the discussion part of this thread?

happymerryberries · 25/08/2005 12:13

Damn, where could I have gone if I had only listnened to good advice [Now where is that hangs head in shame emoticon when I need it]

Nightynight · 25/08/2005 12:13

no blu, us intellectual heavyweights were just taking time out

monkeytrousers · 25/08/2005 12:23

I left school with no qualifications and only just went to university 3 years ago. I'm vey much a lightweight in that area.

Can we stop the digs now please? Alot of things have been said in anger. Lets make up.

happymerryberries · 25/08/2005 12:29

Sorry if I've been misunderstood but I haven't had a go at anyone's qualifications. Other than correcting peachskin's bigoted comments that is....oh sorry, her ever so clever way of winning friends and influencing people.

peachskin · 25/08/2005 13:37

HMB - I came to this website because it is a "parenting" website and I have a small son.

I happend to see the multicultural stuff a few weeks ago and started to read and decided to counter some of the comments which I found offensive and which showed an inherent lack of knowledge of or sympathy towards other cultures.

I made a remark about Wales (NOT the Welsh) and look at the number of people who have called me a racist ?!

It just goes to show that it is ok to be a bigot when it comes to the ethnic minorities in this country, but you can't even say you don't like the LOOK OF A GEOGRAPHIC AREA WITHIN GLORIOUS BRITAIN without loads of women on this website coming out with abuse. Unbelievable isn't it ?

MT - I don't give a toss whether people have gone to university or not or when they did it or what grades they got. I hope I haven't offended you.

I was having a dig at neo-Nazis (who generally have little formal or other kinds of education) and burn books that don't prove their white supremcist ideals.

Why have I stooped so low and got involved in these trashy discussions, that is another question !!

monkeytrousers · 25/08/2005 13:59

No! I'm not offended! Don't worry

peachskin · 25/08/2005 15:19

HMB - I am not here to make friends nor influence people. What a waste of time that would be !

I am English, I am white, I was born a Christian (hallelooooyahaaa - though I would put myself firmly in the non-believer camp).....and I detest nationalists......they stand for everything I despise in this world.

Papillon · 25/08/2005 15:45

Thats so rude!!! Peachskin - people would not want to be your friend with that attitude - are you anti humans

Papillon · 25/08/2005 16:00

lol Monkeytrousers must not be human... who were those people in that photo you sent me

peachskin · 25/08/2005 16:27

papillon - yes I admit to being rude to some-people-who-call-themselves-humans, yes

peacedove · 25/08/2005 16:32

Here is my tuppence worth:

nationalism has indeed become a disease.

I think humankind {to be PC } has a tendency to go to the extreme, and do things that are either daft (celibacy, for example), or engage in murder in the name of the ideology.

Nationalism, when it binds people in a region together to strive for some higher goals, or to make lives liveable, is all right, but when it is used to stifle individuality or differences, can either result in elimination of the differences, or their exixstence as rebellious sub-cultures, which can take violent form.

Same for all -isms. I used to say that the history of the last century or so is a history of war of -isms, mostly thought up in Europe or its daughter countries. I am open to correction, though.

Learning languages is a good thing. The Imams should learn English, but I don't see why it should be made compulsory. In fact all the religious people I have met, want their thoughts and sermons to be translated in as many languages as possible. Arabic (and Quranic Arabic in particular), is a beautiful language, and we meet words or phrases that have no exact equivalence in the other language. The Quran being revealed in Arabic, we would expect our religious scholars to be well-versed in that language, and for some of our young to take up Arabic and Quranic studies.

There is a lot of literature available in English, including fatwas (religious edicts), and discussions on many topics.

There are certain parts that have to be in Arabic. When the Quran is quoted, it has to be Arabic. At the start of a lecture particularly the Friday sermon, there are Arabic sermons given by the prophet (saw) that have to be read in Arabic.

Any bilingual Muslim would be only too glad to translate these texts in English, if he has the time. Remember that Islam is a proselytising religion. No hiddenness in it, so we would like you to know what we are saying, only we would like non-Muslims to listen to the whole, rather than pick a few words and start jumping on Islam.

Makes sense?

And PS is right about leanguage learning difficulties for the elderly.

About "feeling" British!

Britain, and well, the rest of the world has changed.

Wanting to change what you do not agree with, is a fundamental right, as long as one does not want to take away the fundamental rights of "others" one does not agree with. ie. try to bring about a change peacefully, and nott ake away someone else's rights.

Coming to live in a society does not mean one has to agree with everything in that society. I can even imagine situations when there isn't much one likes about a society one lives in, but may continue to do so for a variety of valid reasons.

PS, the "Free India Movement" was led by Subash Chandra Bose, a Bengali Hindu. Some Muslim leaders, not just from India, also tried to get help from Germany. Either they did not understand Hitler's philosophy, or the thought the "enemy of my enemy is my friend". And, who can blame them for considering the British Empire as their enemy?

peachskin · 25/08/2005 16:43

peacedove - thanks for bringing us back to the topic under discussion !

Yes, indeed, "my enemy's enemy is my friend".

That is how the US has always managed to get itself into a mess and we only see the results of it now - i.e. supported and funded Bin Laden when it was convenient for the US to get Arabs and Afghans fight and get killed in the process of throwing out the Russians from Afghanistan.

Thanks for the name of the Free India Movement leader !!

Papillon · 25/08/2005 16:43

Greetings PeaceDove

Perhaps you might realise what a gracious ar§e HMB was after catching you out for lying peachskin - human nature lesson for potential human rights lawyer

peachskin · 25/08/2005 18:01

I was caught lying - by whom about what ?

peachskin · 25/08/2005 18:10

Oh I see - I lied about Wales !!! My apologies to the Welsh tourist board for describing Wales as a "dump" in order to prove my point about bigots...

happymerryberries · 25/08/2005 18:16

Hmmmm by 'acting' the bigot, well that worked very well didn't it?

Forgive me if I am sigularly unimpressed. hay ho.

As as to 'Not being interested in winning friends and influencing people' Why bother posting then, if not to change people's minds? I thought that was all part of your cunning plan at playing the bigot? We were all to have your jaded minds opened to your input!?

Must have mis-read that, but there I'm not at your elivated plane of exisistance, being one of the undereducated. I just wait breathlessly for your education.

monkeytrousers · 25/08/2005 19:05

I don't know what this is about now.

PS, my post about my education was just in addition Nightynight's theme of the moment, not directed at you. I don't care who's been to university. Many of the stupidest people I know have a degree, but so do many of the cleverest too.

happymerryberries · 25/08/2005 19:08

No I nknwo that I too it in good part as gently , friendly fun!

FWIW I did go to university, not that means that much. I'm just having a pop at some people's attitudes that they are the 'educated' come to bring 'education' to we poor silly mummies!

peachskin · 25/08/2005 19:09

HMB + papillon - thanks but I am totally and utterly fed up with this crap. You are not interested in a serious debate of any kind. That's obvious. I tried to put this thread back on track by responding to peacedove and you have dragged into the gutter again.

If you, or any one else wish to send me some hate mail by CAT please do so. I will be very pleased to receive them.