Man shot dead in Stockwell unconnected to terror inquiry

[QueenOfQuotes]

Just seen a ticker on the BBC website saying that

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Hear Hear! Edam

"have to live with his decision forever which is punishment enough"

so are you saying these people shouldn't be held accountable for mistakes if it turns out, that a serious mistake was made???

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OK here's an interesting one for those arguing that they couldn't have raided the house which was under surveillance.......

"Armed police have raided a property in North London as part of the investigation"

here

So why couldn't they have done that with address that they had and which was under surveillance?

MC30: As I said, it won't happen, so what I think is academic.

But for the record, yes, a murdering police officer, nurse or doctor is still a murderer, IF it were proved to be murder that is. In this specific case, it is unlikely murder will ever be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

All criminals who go to jail may leave a wife and kids in a mess, that's an unfortunate consequence of prison. (Maybe more criminals should think of that before they act?)

where are the awful bloody people we really need to catch?

"yes an investigation should take place and he should be removed from duty IF it transpires that he disobeyed police protocol."

I think that's standard protocol that they're suspended pending an investigation.

"He will never recover from what has happened and I dont think sending him to prison will help the situation."

Who says it's going to be the man who fired the shots who is to blame? The MET have accepted responsibility as a whole - presumably the inquiry will show more clearly who was to blame for the events which leds to the man being shot - which probably weren't down to just the man who fired the gun!

I wonder where in North London?

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haven't read all this thread so don't shoot me down but if....the police has said to themselves' well we aren't 100% certain about this bloke so we won't shoot him' and he had got on the tube and blown himself up and 50 people were killed what would your reaction be?
Yes the police make mistakes, but how often do they shoot people wrongly? Not very often. The fact that so many of you cite the harry stanley case shows how rare it is. It happens infrequently that's why you remember it.
If this had happened in any other city in europe or the u.s , i'm sure the outcome would have been the same.
Yes it's terrible, yes it's tragic, and yes it needs to be investigated but I think the police have a horrible job to do and split second decisions to make based on the information they have at that moment.
I feel sorry for the policeman who did this, as i feel terribly sorry for the family of the poor man who died.

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We don't live in a police state- thereofre the police have to justify their mistakes. Just like doctors, and company bosses, and solicitors and everyone else who has reponsibiliuty for their actions. If someone dies though medical negligence then the people responsible are accountable (and sometimes they do go to prison if they've been reckless enough), if someone dies at work then the person in charge can be held responsible (as I've already said- happened last year locally when someone died through insufficient training). The police aren't above accountability. If someone has made a cock up and that has led to a death then they are accountable for that mistake.

and the guy didn't just fail to stop when asked to...he ran away and vaulted over the barrier in a panicky manner and ran onto the train.What were they supposed to think?

MC30: I agree it is unlikely, but we cannot say 'not murder' catagorically at this stage, however much we would like it not to be.

(Aside: murder isn't necessarily cold-blooded, as I understand it, if intent to kill that individual by unlawful means can be proved for even a 'split second' (to use a well worn phase from today ) then its murder.)

AM - my thoughts exactly well said.

the police were damned if they shot in error and damned if they didn't and he did turn out to be a bommer.

but the poor guy knew he'd be deported if caught - i'm sure he didn't think they were going to shoot him 5 times in the head. painful lesson learnt by all i hope. but someone needs to be held to account.

I read the only reson they shot him 5 times was someone can get up after being shot 3 times in the head- can't see it myself but then i've never shot someone b4.

"The fact that so many of you cite the harry stanley case shows how rare it is. It happens infrequently that's why you remember it"

no, it doesn't happen very often. But it will happen a darn sight more often given the new set of procedures they evidently have for dealing with anyone remotely connected to terrorists.

In terms of what should be done, I think the procedures need to be examined with a microscope, and that changes should be made. I hate the way the police chief has said they'll keep the shoot to kill policy before there's been an investigation: after that, if they choose to keep it then (maybe) fair enough. The men who pulled the trigger are almost certainly not to blame in this case.

edam - the bus thing worries me too.

Also let's not forget people like DC Stephen Oake, PC Ian Broadhurst, PC Keith Blakelock and PC Yvonne Fletcher and many other police officers who have given their lives trying to protect us.

Officers do their very very best in sometimes extremely difficult circumstances, they put their lives on the line everyday for a sometimes seeemingly ungrateful public.

"Officers do their very very best in sometimes extremely difficult circumstances,"

I don't think anyone has denied that fact. But just because 99.99% of the time they do a fantastic job doesn't mean they shouldn't be accountable for their mistakes.

i do appreciate all that ordinary police officers do, And how many risks they take. this cock up may have its roots somewhere higher up. But still, the life of this brazilian guy was worth as much as the life of a policeman and needs to be investigated in the same way.

the difference is that police officers are killed in a deliberate action with intent.

Are we saying these officers should be 'punished' for this man's tragic death? If so, why? Police officers are not superhuman beings, they are sons, fathers, brothers and husbands with normal human feelings and instincts. Who knows how anyone one of us may have reacted in those special circumstances, even with specialist training - there but for the Grace of God go I.

I completely agree though that there should be an enquiry and lessons learned.

so are you saying that police offices should be immune from investigation/prosecution if they make a major mistake???