if this mother wasn't coping then wtf didn't she ask for help rather than paying someone 20 f****ing quid to look after her child?

[wannaBe]

so very very for this little boy. here

Addictions are always salient points, as are other things. Some people have personality disorders which makes them unsuitable to care for children.

i am not saying that all crack addicts should immediately be given lots of babies to look after.

I am saying that just because someone has an addicition it does not automatically mean that they will behave violently towards anyone, especially children.

While people with no addictions are perfectly capable of doing awful things.

For example i would not say that all people addicted to illegal substances should automatically have their children removed. Or that there is a "hierarchy" of drugs, and that crack addicts are automatically much worse than alcoholics for example.

I leave my children with my parents. My dad drinks a bottle of wine most nights.

I do not believe that I am being negligent in doing this.

That's probably because she feels betrayed and hoodwinked. She thought the killer loved her child. She thought she was leaving him in the best possible hands. Maybe she didn't know anyone better?

Post hoc ergo procter hoc?

Not all addicts are child killers. (obviously )
Not all child killers are addicts.

However people who are addicted to illegal substances that have a tendency to arouse paranoia, anger and violence are quite possible more likely to be harmful to children.

What are you arguing about? The man killed a child. He was a crack addict. It was not the best idea for him to have someones child. What part of this are you arguing against?

Would you leave you children with your parents if your dad smoked a couple of crack pipes a night?

I wish i hadn't read this too. how can anyone do such horrible things to a small child?

Feel completely sick - and am wishing DS hadn't gone out for a walk with my parents (who he worships) so I could give him a hug.

Agree that the mother should be prosecuted too.

FGS, people have all sorts of problems and pressures - some people are born with a propensity to mental health issues, or they develop physical illness which make caring for their children far more burdensome. Or they live in crap housing, or have job pressures, or pressure of unemployment. Or have no family around to help them. Or have useless family around. At the end of the day, NONE of these things are an excuse for neglecting or harming a child.

junglist one look around the filthy bedsit would indicate to any sane person that it definately was NOT a place to leave a 3 year old.

I just want to endorse the view of wannabe that most addicts don't use responsibly - how true - as otherwise they would not be addicts. So how irresponsible to leave your child with an addict.

And while we are at - no I would not expect anyone looking after my child to consume a bottle of wine whilst caring for them.

I am arguing against your idea that people who use drugs or who have addictions are automatically bad parents. Well not even bad parents, but murderous ones.

"Yes repectable middle class 30 somethings can be child abusers too, but they don't tend to farm out babies to crack addicts for fag money, on the whole, as far as I know."

Your point there seems to be that you are making judgements about people based on their class. And that if they are middle class abusers, this is somehow better than being lower class crack addicts, even ones who aren't abusive.

All addictions can be very dangerous. Look at that case abroad recently where a couple allowed their real baby to starve to death while they spent 12 hours a day online lookign after their virtual baby. Meanwhile a load of people who used crack failed to abuse their children.

You can't make assumptions like this. Some households which seem grotty are, maybe even most, but not all. And the reverse is true.

Resorting to all this "crackhead scumbag" stuff diverst people's attention from abuse which is happening in "nice" families.

And yes this woman was niave and stupid. But should she go to prison? No.

That bedsit was absolute shit and squalor, not even fit for dogs.

zabyzoo my mother is there too.

If we are to remove children from all families where one of the parents drinks, then we will have to remove an awful lot of children.

Thanks BTW for saying I am neglecting my children by leaving them with my retired doctor parents who have never so much as lifted a finger to anyone.

Sorry Imsonottelling but can you point to evidence of all these people who use crack yet fail to abuse their children?

Surely the using of crack in itself is in essence is making a choice not to look after yourself, so if you are a parent then you automatically do not in some way look after your children to the best of your ability.

zabyzoo - are you talking about crack specifically or all addictions?

Where are you all looking at these pictures?

I asked earlier but no-one answered the question.

Shall I repeat my post - I said that I would not expect anyone looking after my child to consume a bottle of wine while looking after them.

The police footage of the bedsit was terrible - lots of hazards for a 3 year old.

Ok - I am genuinely interested if any poster on here, having seen the footage of the bedsit would willingly choose to leave a 3 year old baby in that space?

Anyone??? and if so, why would you do it????

Seriously Riven- you cant have friends who live in similar squalor to that bedsit?? It was filthy (my house is untidy, but that place took the piss). I cannot believe that anyone would find that amount of filth acceptable.

I am aware of families in Bham with children on child protection register for unintentional neglect through living in similar circumstances.

Am totally at implication that leaving children with loving grandparents, one of whom drinks of an evening, is neglectful.

zabyzoo would you have it that all crack users automatically have their children removed? even if there are other people there who do not use? Would you extend that to everyone who uses mind altering drugs?

What would you do about people with illnesses that can cause paranoid or violent behaviour?

and if SS do think its acceptable then it says alot about their standards tbh.

well given that large numbers of "celebrities" have been revealed in the past to be crack users, and it's also rumoured to be common among the "city workers"

actually just found this article (very recent)