if this mother wasn't coping then wtf didn't she ask for help rather than paying someone 20 f****ing quid to look after her child?

[wannaBe]

so very very for this little boy. here

referring to the boyfriend as an addict as if that is proof enough that he was the sort of person who might hurt or kill a child, a person can have an addiction in the same way as a person can have schizophrenia or rheumatoid arthritis without it automatically rendering them a danger to a child surely?

Are you serious? Does arthiritis make you steal money to fund your habit? Does it change your mood,make you violent, does it render you incapable of looking after anyone, including yourself, let alone someone elses child, properly?

I've heard it all now. Yes, crack addiction is exactly like arthritis, and we should all give our friendly neighbourhood crack addicts jobs as nannies.
Bonkers.

I think flare ups of rheumatoid arthritis can be pretty debilitating, yes, could definitely impair functioning and affect mood - not sure about the violence but then am not persuaded that people living with addictions are automatically violent either. What are your preconceptions actually based on?

But I have a condition (manic depression) that changes my mood, makes me violent (not to my children luckily) and at times renders me incapable of looking after myself let alone my own or someone elses children properly - although at such times would be in hospital or having lots of support at home.

I don't know who died and left me in charge of the Anti-Stereotype Campaign though

People with addictions almost always put their need to take a drug / have a drink / whatever above absolutely everything else. Addicts have a disease that makes them incredibly selfish. No, it doesn't make you a child-killer but surely to goodness, anyone can understand that an illegal drug addict isn't the ideal choice to care for a toddler.

I don't understand how anyone can condone the action of giving over the care of this boy to a crack addict.

of course just a point on the crb checks - only work if you have been caught in the county that you applied in. So you can have your crb check and still be a murderer or a child abuser - just not been caught.

does the little boy have a father and other relatives?? and if so - where are they in all of this??

She neglected that child regardless of what happened to him.

Just imagine for a minute someone posted on here that they either A were planning to ask what they considered to be a close friend to have their child for an indefinite amount of time, that they were going to pay them £20 a week for it and that they would be seeing the child for maybe twenty minutes at a time every few days. Would you all say "yep, go for it, you obviously trust this person to look after your child"? Somehow I don't think so. In fact, I remember a thread a while back where someone wanted to place her three year old in the care of her parents during the week so she could go to medical school and she was slated for it.

Or B, someone came on here and said "My friend is struggling a bit, and she's asked if I will look after her child for an indefinite period of time." The calls would be for her to speak to the mother's hv/gp/social services, I can't imagine anyone saying that what was being suggested was a good idea.

The mother wasn't directly responsible for the death of that child. But she abandoned him to his fate. The last time she saw him was four days before he died. For just twenty minutes. Hardly sounds like someone who either cared enough or had the capasity to care what was going on.

I didn't say that all addicts are violent. I said they are not ideal people to hand over the care of a toddler to.

The crack addiction may not have been salient to the mum though. Drug taking may be rife in that area and may have become normalised. So she probably judged by how "nice" they were. These things happen. My godson was looked after by another family friend who was a mother herself. As it turned out she used to pretend to be a ghost in the night to scare him, made him drink piss and all sorts, a complete sadist, though not physical. None of us knew.

what is even less ideal is that the mum was struggling so much in the first place without anyone noticing or caring, especially as she had so recently emerged from the care system herself

what the fuck is wrong with the world and these people????!!!

Preconceptions? Stereotypes? Thats the biggest load of horseshit I've seen on MN, and thats saying something.

Mean old me, being nasty about the poor misunderstood crack addicts. Most of them are just delighful caring people I'm sure, make excellent child carers and are decent hardworking productive memebers of society.

Or, on planet real world, they are rather more likely to be criminals with problems with anxiety, irritability, extreme anger, violence and tendencies towards paranoid psychosis. A crack addict IS more likely to be violent and cause harm, thats a simple fact.

My "preconceptions" are based on a proper understanding of the chemical effects of the drug and the typical behaviour patterns of addicts.

wannabe i remember that medical student thread.

A lot of people told the Op to go for it. many cited that children are left with relatives for long periods of time in other countries.

And it was the "carer" that had just emerged from the care system, not the mother, who was 3 yrs older.

why can't mothers who are not coping be helped, I mean really helped. I heard that in France the state pays for a cleaner and general all-round helper to come to the house for months after the birth. Mothers from all walks of life need real practical help with child-rearing, not be left to "cope". Its a miracle that as many mothers cope as they do, when you consider the poverty, social isolation, lack of social status etc that goes along with motherhood. When you think of all the funding that goes into wars that could go into helping mothers it makes my blood boil...

yes it was the carer, my mistake

Typical behaviour patterns of drug addicts who have come to the attention of people doing studies on drug addicts.

I have known quite a few people who were habitual crack users (so therefore addicts?) and had good jobs, normal relationships and so on.

Although these people were godawful, I think mitchy has a point here. They would have been godawful if they drank tea.

Tea does not alter your brain chemistry to make you paranoid and violent. Crack does.

Of course you may be no more of an arse on crack than you are anyway, but you are out of your mind if you do not think that crack addiction is a salient point, or that it does not change people.

Are you actually seriously arguing that crack addiction has no bearing on ones ability to take care of children? Really?

What on Earth was the mother thinking? She obviously was not coping - but how sad that she did not see help and support so she could cherish her child.

My prayers are with that gorgeous little boy.

In fact I have known lots of people with all sorts of different addictions who didn't behave like violent scumbags and go around murderign chidren.

I'm sure there are addicts who are not murderers. But how many of them would you trust to look after your children 24/7 for an indefinite period of time with only minimal contact?

"This mum made an awfull, terrible mistake. She will forever blame herself for what happened."

That's a nice thought, but actually there is no evidence that she is blaming herself in any way, is there?

Obviously not right to lynch the mother, and of course very few people would have done what she did. But there is no sign of guilt or feeling that she did anything that was in any way misguided in any of the (admittedly short) reports I've read.

let's be honest - most addicts don't use responsibly. So if you leave your child with a drug addict then you know there's a better than average chance they will be using either in front of or with your child in the house.