Number 10 petition to criminalise men who buy sex

[policywonk]

Sign here if, you know, you want to

Is that directed at me? All I meant is that the law does recognize that there are situations where consent is not valid. For instance in S & M if one is injured, the fact is that it's still GBH and one cannot say, 'well, I consented' because one cannot consent to it.

So there is already a precedent.

If one person says one thing, and another says another about the "same" experience, then I'd look very closely at both sets of statements, where you seem to wish to accept only one.

I'd also say that rape is already illegal, so there's no need for further legislation. Redefining "rape" as "with her consent, but in the presence of cash" is an insult to genuine rape victims.

I've already accepted that for "prostituted women" - who are working against their wills - it's horrific. Why can't you accept that, for women who choose to work as prostitutes, it's not horrific at all? (Would you outlaw abbatoirs because veggies might find them repellant? )

Women who choose to work as prostitutes are saying these new measures would penalise them (by reducing client numbers, and so their income) and make vulnerable street workers even more vulnerable. Who wins?

Why should they look for other jobs,if they're enjoying the jobs they have? Just because you think they should?

How do you know that unhappy hookers exist in greater numbers than happy ones?

Ach, ditanny, you're not still giving the Poppy Project survey any credence? It really has been comprehensively disproven. (And yes, I've read their rather weak response that they're not academics; why accept the job if they knew they couldn't do it?) Melissa Farley has her own (anti-prostitution) agenda; weren't you accusing someone earlier of just that?

Teela Sanders (who you dismissed as "a google search") is a respected academic and her work is rather less biased imho.

As for murder rates - they're higher for monogamous women (according to Women's Aid, two a week - that'll be around 12 by Friday, no dead UK prostitutes this year so far that I've heard of). Rates of violence - where are the complaints on "Dodgy Punter" forums? Where are the convictions?

As for pimping, I guess it depends how you define it. Most people think of a violent man beating "his" hos, but the word could equally apply to a good and caring agency or brothel owner (and they do exist.) And trafficking stats were pulled out of the top of someone's very vivid imagination - where are the 80,000 trafficked women Pentameter couldn't find?

""We initiated this research in order to address some of the issues that have arisen in discussions about the nature of prostitution. In particular: is prostitution just a job or is it a violation of human rights? From the authors' perspective, prostitution is an act of violence against women; it is an act which is intrinsically traumatizing to the person being prostituted."

That's the problem ditanny - they've already decided what their "research" will show.

And I'm talking about prostitution in GB, not Turkey.

those of you who are anti the position, does this mean you will be teaching your sons that it's cool to rent women by the half-hour? this is what it's all about for me, tbh.

I hate this thread

Ditanny, the simple fact that hundreds, if not thusands, of brothels are operating in the UK, with the full knowledge of the appropriate authorities, suggests to me that in fact, most brothel owners are fairly decent folk. Women are not owned by brothel keepers, they go home at the end of their shifts - and they're under no form of obligation to go back. If it's as terrible and abusive as you say, where are the convictions?

How interesting that you googled "Teela Sanders BDSM" - is that a particular interest of yours? It's not really one of hers, though as a Senior Lecturer in the Sociology of Crime and Deviance it's no surprise that she's looked into it.

What is the "MRA pro-prostitution gang" of which I am apparently a member? In any case, there's nothing obscure about the rebuttal of the Poppy Project report, it was mentioned in the Guardian at least.

I'm not supporting the "rights of men to pay for sex from women who are likely to be abused and exploited." I am supporting the rights of intelligent, articulate, independent women to work as prostitutes if they so choose. These women are much less likely to be "abused and exploited", so surely we're singing from the same hymn sheet?

jesus wept, olkn. that last paragraph.

No, Aitch. Think it's the first paragraph

shrugs

Are you seriously suggesting that thousands of brothel workers are forced - every single one of them? Why will you not take the words of women who are working as prostitutes, from the blogs to which I linked way, way earlier in this conversation?

Here's the link repeated. Have a look round some more of that forum, and tell me how abused those women are. What right has anyone to tell them they can't work in jobs they enjoy?

af Why do you hate it?

because it is upsetting, shocking, tells me things I never wanted to know and it bothers me that it seems there isn't a perfect solution....

actually, and i once again stress that this isn't my area of specialisation, from what i understand from my friend, the police would very much like to 'bother' a lot of supposedly okay brothels, right out of existence. i think if you've seen the sharp end and have a conscience, you know that it's not right what goes on. but for the cops, a lot of it is management of resources.