Bring back the death penalty?

[atlantis]

An interesting article here has an interesting arguement.

What do you think?

One problem with the death penalty is that juries, in the olden days, were notoriously unwilling to convict on a capital charge. So a murderer would be far more likely to walk free altogether.

Then again, if an innocent man did get convicted- not a lot you could do to make matters right.

totally agree with your balanced common sense view matey katie.

Imprisoning offenders is all about rehabilitation, although I'm obviously not against that goal. I think a lot of people forget that probably the MAIN point of prison is to keep people safe from the offender and to punish them for their crime. These two objectives are not rendered impossiblie by having fewer privileges.

also, as you even say yourself SOH, many prisoners have nothing much going on on the outside. that's what i said. So because of that prison isn't much of a punishment. if a person can be indifferent to whether they are inside or outside, then prison is clearly not that bad.

I mean ISN'T all about rehabilitation.

Oh this old chestnut again. The 'let's spit in their food' brigade - or so someone said the last time this topic came up on a thread.

Bottom line - put your money where your mouth is: if you personally want the death penalty reintroduced in Britain then you personally should be happy to administer the murder process yourself. The injection, the bullet to the head, the massive electric shock - whatever.If you aren't OK with that then you are a hypocrite and a liar.

Everything Hula said.

no donnie, that is such an ignorant remark which is out of place in a sensible discussion.

I am not in favour of cruelty. In fact I think a lot more effort should be made to protect the 'weaker' prisoners from the stronger bullying prisoners. I think often it is the OTHER prisoners that make prison a total nightmare, and I don't think it should be a total nightmare. Even criminals shouldn't be at risk of beatings and bullying and having their possessions stolen, or their food spat in, by other prisoners.

it is so obtuse to suggest that I would want to 'spit in their food'. That is ridiculous.

Nobody wants the death penalty introduced. Not on this thread. What you say in your last para goes without saying.

Maggie: the last time this was debated some nutter whose name I don't recall - a wandering troll I expect - called for all sorts or pre-execution punishments like spitting in offenders' food and such like.This is what I was referring to.If I could be bothered to search and link I would, but I can't. You have entirely misinterpreted my post but, you know, whatever.

"also, as you even say yourself SOH, many prisoners have nothing much going on on the outside. that's what i said. So because of that prison isn't much of a punishment. if a person can be indifferent to whether they are inside or outside, then prison is clearly not that bad"

But because you can't treat people as a homogenous mass, then what you propose is making it bad enough that it's sufficiently comparable to the worst life led by some prisoners. Because, as the article in the OP mentions, most people aren't truly bad or truly good, it's about circumstances and opportunity and education. So if there's a chance that you can re-educate, offer opportunities and alter somebody's circumstances, that's a damn sight more effective than reducing prison to an environment that is 'punishing' for all. Because then those people that are victims of circumstances and could have been helped end up broken-spirited, demoralised and disincentivised. And there's a price to that beyond the financial. The punishment can only ever be the loss of liberty. That is what a civilised, rehabilative justice system provides. Removal of the threat to society, loss of liberty and rehabilitation where possible. That's what we should work towards, not making the prison environment reflect the destitution that drove people to crime in the first place.

And maggie, there are people on this thread and on MN that would want the death penalty introduced. Sadly.

I am not in favour of the death penalty.

I agree there should be sentences of life without parole.

I do think that the 'prisons should be sleeping on straw' etc is ridiculous and ignorant.

Prisons aren't comfortable, cells are tiny, you have to shit in front of your cell mate etc they aren't luxury. Prisoners earn rights to have the 'luxuries' like TV and it is taken away if they don't stay in line. The luxuries are a tool to control behaviour. If you want bare cells and thousands of bored, angry prisoners then you will need to fund the prison service 100 x more than they have now to pay for the staff to police that sort of regime. Good luck finding any extra money for prisons they are chronically underfunded as it is.

donnie, i thought it was the other way round, that you had misinterpreted my post, lumping me in with the 'spit in their food brigade'. The nutter you refer to was on a different thread. Nobody on this thread (ie, the one we're on right now ) wants to spit in anybody's food, nor does anybody on this thread want to bring back the death penalty.

Just because somebody disagrees slightly with your vision of how the prison system could be improved does not mean that they are in favour of the death penalty or spitting in food.

But I think you are still on the last thread really. Whatever.

soh
I would prefer to see the prisoners' human rights to get through the day without being beaten up or bullied defended a bit better. I would prioritise that over the supposed luxuries such as tvs games consoles junk food or whatever. things we all can survive without.

civilisation doesn't need tvs. but bullying and violence is rife in prisons and that is not civilised. imo, more effort should be made to clean up /monitor the behaviour of the bullies at the top of the food chain who make the weaker prisoners at the bottom of the food chain live in fear.

i think the prision service has it more or less right.

was shocked to read that disabled killers get no help at all inside though.