Bring back the death penalty?

[atlantis]

An interesting article here has an interesting arguement.

What do you think?

Who wants to bring back the death penalty? I certainly don't. Not sure who that comment is directed at SOH

My cousin's cousin (on other side) is a Prisoner officer. She doesn't talk about it much though... I have picked up on things

Which comment?

"Hmm, very civilised."

That begs the question on what is a civilised society? America has the death penalty, are they less civilised than us?

Is it civilised for someone to break into your house and stab you and your family to death and then receive a liberal prison sentence?

Are Baby Peter's killers civilised? Ian Huntley? Myra Hindley? How many people would like ten minutes alone with them in a room and would they have a civilised conversation with them?

Can a civilised society breed terrorists within it's heart?

Can a civilised society declare war on another country?

Every time someone says "I don't believe in executing criminals", there is a little old lady somewhere that falls down dead.

Generally mugged for her pension book.

I agree with expat.

Ah, but just because a minority of the population carry out offences, should we all stoop to that level? or do we stand up tall, punish and attempt to rehabilitate our society's offenders, and remain civilised.

IMO any country or state that agrees with the dealth penalty is less civilised.

My parents both work in a prison and feel strongly that prison is not the answer - they see many, many men return time after time. They have nowhere else to go.

The main problem is that there isn't any real support after they leave. There supposedly is - most prisoners move to a rehabilitation wing before leaving where they're taught life skills, learn a trade etc. The support then extends to finding them housing and a job if necessary on departure. Keeping in touch, generally settling them back into society and giving them the ability to earn a living. When it works, it works well.

The problem is that the men generally look forward to moving to the wing then find there's no budget for the services they've been promised. SO they leave prison disillusioned, without any of the help they were looking forward to.

Mum and Dad are both convinced that further investment into this would dramatically cut the number of repeat offenders, thereby paying for itself in the long run.

Not exactly on topic, I realise, but seemed to fit!

"or do we stand up tall, punish and attempt to rehabilitate our society's offenders, and remain civilised."

Turn the other cheek? How many times?

If it's so lonely, isolating and depressing I wonder why there are so many repeat offenders inside.

is it civilised to cage a man like an animal? If we want to be truly civilised we must close down all the prisons and just turn the other cheek to criminals like jesus said to do.

Recidivism will always be high when the social problems leading to the offence in the first place have not been dealt with.

Refusing to put someone to death is not turning the other cheek.

Many of the repeat offenders don't know anything else. They don't have any qualifications or skills, they live in deprived areas where it's the easy way to make money.

Lots of them don't have family so they have onbody to go back to, no job, no home. At least in prison they know what's what and htey have food and heating.

"Refusing to put someone to death is not turning the other cheek."

I never said it was, I haven't argued for the death penalty either way yet, but rehabilitation for many doesn't work either, when do you give up with trying to rehabilitate and just throw away the key?

I've been inside an open prison....not serving might I add! And I know someone who works in a secure prison well known for holding dangerous men.

One very well known and recently released prisoner had a Playstation and flat screen tv in his own private room.....other inmates have access to Sky tv depending on their behaviour. And this is in a 'hard' prison.

I'm a law abiding citizen, nobody gives me a telly for good behaviour.

Scrap the Sky telly and the PS......give them books if they behave themselves. Offer them courses, exams, skills etc but not telly and computer games.

There must be a way to show them that there is a route from books or education or a job = plasma telly....and not stealing = plasma telly.

The death penalty is wrong.

But if you have a life sentence, you shouldn't get Sky TV, the internet, and all mod cons.

A plain bed, a small cell, a couple of hours exercise break a day is enough for life prisoners.

Prison is meant to serve 3 purposes.

1. It keeps dangerous people off our streets by physically incarcerating them.
2. It punishes people who have committed crimes.
3. It rehabilitates criminals.

In the case of life prisoners, number 3 is not necessary. May as well do numbers 1 and 2 as efficiently and cheaply as possible.

PS Serving prisoners should not get the vote!

This is exactly the sort of thing why people hate the EU and the ECHR. Why should European institutions get to decide whether prisoners in Britain get to vote or not?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7992045.stm

Throwing away the key isn't an option for all but the most serious repeat offenders.

I'd love to be able to say that this was because of the moral issues involved, and our society's determination to do the best for each individual, but it's because of money of course.

Fleecy's post is v interesting - that offenders are offered the hope of moving to a wing that will help them re-integrate in society, and provide them with a skill....

but that this offer of hope is sometimes taken away due to lack of funding, leaving them feeling alone, rejected and angry.

Some rehabilitation huh?

As long as there is going to be room for error, no.
I find the idea of taking someones life abhorrent.

It's hardly a deterrent in the States, is it?

Maybe if corporal punishment was brought back for certain offenses?

Someone mugs an old lady and she falls and breaks her hip- a walloping everyday for at least a month so he can endure a small amount of the pain that person is going through? and he would have to stay in a hostel for the duration? no tv/computers etc.

Different crimes bringing different levels of chastisement?

differentID - there's a fair change the criminal would have already had a large dose of that already.

"I'd love to be able to say that this was because of the moral issues involved, and our society's determination to do the best for each individual, but it's because of money of course."

Ahh, but if we stop the luxuries there would be more money to keep them inside, it's a catch 22.

If we weren't paying out for their human rights claims as someone pointed out earlier, there's more money there.

Surely the cost of allowing someone out to reoffend, policing to catch them, court time etc not to mention the cost to society should be weighed against the cost of keeping them inside. (if that makes sense).

Maggie, I already answered the question of why people reoffend further up. And fleecy's comments point to the same thing. It's not because of the offer of a playstation or skyTV, it's not incentives, it's because they go back to the life they left with no family, no prospects, no friends outside of the ones they had whilst committing crimes, no learnt skills or opportunities from their time inside. They are not rehabilitated, they are just older and more bitter.

And atlantis, you ask when we give up trying to rehabilitate and throw away the key? Well, there's the problem, people aren't leaving prison rehabilitated. The funds aren't there.

Just because I don't want the death penalty and I don't want prisoners treated in certain ways doesn't mean I'm not fully ready to accept that the current system does not work.

I would have to disagree a little there nancy. not everyone who commits crimes has had a violent upbringing.

"And atlantis, you ask when we give up trying to rehabilitate and throw away the key? Well, there's the problem, people aren't leaving prison rehabilitated. The funds aren't there."

But the funds are there for sky tv, gyms etc.

It was reported that prisoners get better quality food (ppp) than patients in the NHS, yes we have to feed them and i'm not saying give them bread and water but surely something is wrong when they spend more per head on a prisoners meal than on a patient in hospital.

I think the image of prisons as holiday camps is a media constructed thing - people reoffend because they are returning to the same situations without hope of improving things. My friends ex went to prison, deservedly so, whilst inside he got a degree. Came out of prison, moved back to the same town mixing witht the same people and couldn't get a job because of his record - he went straight back on drugs, committed crimes again as a result and the cycle continues. Perhaps we should be trying to enable people to feel a pride in themselves and their communities and enable them to see a reason for staying out of prison.