'snatched' by social workers

[DuelingFanjo]

oh ffs

I know it's the Daily Mail but Social workers don't snatch children!

She looks good for 48 mind!

The thing is, Dittany, I've seen your comments on other threads (not to do with social work) and I often find myself impressed with your analysis and comments. On these threads, sometimes you seem to want answers to your particular preoccupation and for those answers to be black and white.

Re Nevres Kamal, I really would like to read a bit more abou what she said. I don't find it hard to believe in bullying cultures in some departments, I was placed in one for a short time. There were some great practitioners doing good work, but I couldn't have worked there and I think I would have run into problems if I'd tried to stay. I raised my concerns with my university for follow up.

My place of work has it's own problems, but if a substantial risk to a child was brought to any manager's attention then I'm sure it would be acted on, rather than the messenger getting shot. We also have a whostleblowing policy, so perhaps it's not as defensive a culture.

ISNT, I wanted to respond to your post because all your posts keep getting swallowed up in the argument and no one is responding to them.
By the way, I think about you, since our meeting on your thread. was wondering what had happened. Are they going to close the case soon then ? Hope so.

Thanks for the apology, dittany, I really appreciate it.

I will have a read of the Nevres Kemal link when I get the chance.

I don't doubt for one second that Social Workers can be vindictive, I have seen it for myself, and am now wondering if wahwah and I had the same experiences on placement. I just find it very difficult to accept that a Social Worker would care that she was called fat, let alone actually retaliate. Being insulted is such a daily occurance, it becomes like the wallpaper IYSWIM. On my first day in placement I was called a fucking cunt of a social worker, before I had even opened my mouth.

I think what is bothering the SWs about that example is that there is obviously so much more going on. I make no judgement as to whether the particular worker is being reasonable or not, I could not possibly know.

I think one of the frustrations here, and why people maybe think that Sws don't give full answers, is that we are absolutely not allowed to give examples of practice, be it good or bad, for fear of breaching confidentiality. So we cannot actually explain our experiences. Whilst those who have experiences of services from the other end, are of course completely free to discuss this or not. It is very frustrating for me anyway, in an arguement, to have my hands tied. But I absolutely accept that it has to be the case.

But is it breaching confidentiality if a social worker gives details of cases in general terms, but not the names or places? There are other professions that also have to abide by confidentiality, but seem to be able to communicate about cases.

no, we are not meant to discuss a family, even if changing names and places, in case their situation is recognisable. Very strict. And its fair enough. If I came online and recognised a difficult time in my life from a SW's thread, I would be furious. Even if it wasn't my life being discussed, I would have second thoughts about talking about my life to a worker if I thought there was a chance my story would end up on an internet forum.

NN, how on earth do you know what it is possible or not possible for me to know?

You often accuse other people of posting without checking their facts. Why don't you go and look up the Rochdale case?

I think it would be enormously helpful if your profession actually listened to the survivors.

Thanks oblomov. SW came a couple of weeks ago and said she would be in touch about what we need to do but we haven't heard anything. I have a horrible feeling that we are going to have this hanging over us all over xmas. It is all very stressful.

Edam, some of us try, you know
It might be reassuring to you to know that as part of a social workers training now, we are required to look into the Rochdale case and other inquiries from when things went wrong. There is also a huge push to involve service users in our training - we were required to spend 24 hours with a carer for instance, and young people who were in local authority care came and assessed our interviewing skills. The course I was on was in part designed by a group of service users from across different services.

I agree, the profession would benefit from far more of this, and there should be a requirement for longer qualified workers to retrain involving the service users perspective.

I have not read the whole thread but it is quite long so I imagine a fight has broken out somewhere along the lines but....

My daughter was malnourished at a similar age and at the advice of a specialist dietician we started a high calorie diet with her. She was fussy beyond belief and wiothout this diet I dread to think what may have happened as she had already developed pneumonia once before. She was also prescribed a high calorie milkshake drink which i used to freeze and fee to her as ice cream. i find it a bit disturbing that the parents were more bothered by their healthy eating regime tbh, as like belgo said earlier, when your child is like this you are so desperate you will do anything

grandhighpoobah "On my first day in placement I was called a fucking cunt of a social worker, before I had even opened my mouth."

Has anyone tried to find out whether social workers in other countries are as hated as they are (particularly in England). The experience of my refugees when they have ended up in other countries has been of a completely different culture of child protection social work. Much less aggressive.

Inevitably if someone is placed in an aggressive environment where they are attacked they will then become defensive.

very glad to hear that, Grandhigh - and as I keep saying, I'm sure a huge majority of social workers are decent people trying to do their best. But I do think there are serious systemic issues - as the children's secretary seems to be admitting at last...

Btw, it's not just (some) SWs who can sometimes suffer from patronising/jaundiced attitudes (I've seen this particularly with people with learning disabilities). Sadly it's (some) doctors, nurses and carers, too. Because they are human beings, and many human beings still act in a 'does he take sugar' way ? at best. And at worst, chuck someone with learning disabilities out of A&E when he's been readmitted after a heart attack because they are too tricky to manage and people with LDs are sometimes treated as less than human, or too difficult to manage.

I don't have any data etc but I can say that when I went to Germany to look at their system, the SWs I met were highly regarded...also highly trained and highly paid.

I don't know John. I agree though that the system can make people defensive. Its not my experience though that Social Workers are hated by all service users. Some are not keen, but come to a working relationship, some welcome assistance in difficult circumstances. I would say its a vocal minority who throw insults about. My point was that its common enough as part of your work to not be something you take offence at.

Whilst I agree that the way you practice makes a big difference to how many service users will respond,However, sometimes, the people we work with are violent, aggressive, involved in serious substance misuse, and unlikely to respond to any approach to address their children's safety. I'm not suggesting a worker should treat them with any less respect, only that they are unlikely to respond well to any intervention.

I accept that some of the people present greater challenges than average.

Am sure there's a connection between highly paid, highly trained and highly regarded. But also I think the Germans have a different attitude to professionals - at least, German docs are (in general) far more dogmatic than English ones and patients seem to accept it.

My daughter has severe learning disabilities and both of my social workers are wonderful fwiw

ANd in the last few years (maybe 3 or so) there has been a BIG improvement in the way she is treated within the NHS too. I do not know whether this is/ was some kind of training inititive or something, but the change has been quite dramatic

Glad to hear it, Angry. Mind published Death by Indifference, not sure whether that will have had the impact you describe (don't read it if you are happy with the way dd is being treated, though, it's quite upsetting).

Yes, there is a culture of learning from mistakes, although some of the mistakes appear with depressing regularity. Our serious case reviews are used to inform and educate as well as affecting local policy.

Back to the point if SWs being hated, I've experienced more vitriol on mumsnet than I have from clients irl. I think it depends on the culture. African coleagues describe a culture of compliance is expected forclients and SWs. I had an Aussie colleague tell me that our clients weren't scared enough of us! The difference seems to be that in mo other country are there concerted media campaigns against SWs. This us not connected to performance as to return to Australia, we do a great job with looked after children compared to them (actually we now offer the best support of any country)....

There's lots to respond to here, but you have a sister who is a doctor and she goes on CP visits?!!! I've not seen or heard of a doctor attending an initial CP case conference in the last 5 years, let alone going on visit. Your sister must be truly exceptional...