Teaching schoolchildren not to engage in domestic violence

[Deadworm]

Apologies if there is already a thread on this govt announcement. I was quite shocked by the news that the government is instructing schools to hold lessons on the subject of domestic violence.

My first thought was despair that we actually needed to tell children that it was not right. But my rapidly following thought was that the lessons probably would make a difference, would erode children's sense that the violent context of their own family is normal and the way of the world, would contrbute to a culture where domestic violence is at last regarded as unacceptable.

Thinking of my own sons I feel reassured but sad to think they will be exposed to these lessons.

Further thoughts:

Will the lessons avoid the pitfall of concentrating on telling potential victims how to keep themselves safe, rather than telling potential perpetrators not to offend?

The government is instructing schools to hold these lessons. It is shocking how educational culture has changed in a generation. When I was at school any central dictat would only come from a French government to French schools.

I do have this depressing sense that the increasing state role in the enforcement of basic values just runs in parallel with the increasing erosion of the same values in society at large. In the US it has always seemed that its very moralistic public culture is a defence against the erosion of values in challenged lawless urban environments.

Is that how things are going here? Public moralism, private decay of values?

I heard something about this on Radio 4 this morning. I think it's very sad that it's come to this but, on the other hand, I agree that it may help in situations where people think it's "normal". I do think there should be an element of keeping oneself safe from an abuser provided that advice is "Don't even bother trying to talk it out, hoping it will get better or kissing and making up - run the fuck away and never go back." That's the only appropriate safety tip.

I am concerned that this whole thing is being couched in terms of male-on-female domestic violence. I know that male-on-female domestic abuse is more common than female-on-male but that also happens as does violence in gay/lesbian relationships as well. I think it would be better to do it as any violence in a relationship, no matter the gender of the abuser and victim, is unacceptable.

yes, why is this only aimed at dv against women?

Men can be, and are, victims of dv as well.

It should be that all violence in relationships is wrong, surely?

I think its a good idea.

Not only for the obvious 'education' aspect, and teaching children that it is 'wrong'- but also because it may create an opportunity for a child to speak in confidence to a teacher about distressing situations which may be happening at home.

I was struck by the male-on-female emphasis too. On balance I feel it is justified because the overwhelming majority of victims are female (with male perpetrators). But clearly the message should be there that domestic violence can go the other way,and that it is an issue in same-sex relationships too.

2000 women raped, 10 000 women sexually assaulted every week (Home Office figures). That is a huge social issue.

The woman interviewed on the radio this morning mentioned that new research shows that many teenage girls are sadly the victims of violence by their partners . They do not tell the authorities but talk to their friends about it, so it has not been flagged up before.

WHy the hell does the word domestic have to come into it at all??

Children should be told that all violence against other children, animals, adults, family, friends, aliens, inside or outside the home is unacceptable and wrong!

Well said MC.

I certainly don't mind children learning these things - which should just be supporting what they learn at home.

But I do worry that the state are now looking to schools to deal with everything from violence to healthy eating. This is the domain of the parent, surely. Are teachers really the right people to disseminate this type of information? Is this why they signed up?

I also question the efficacy of these policies.
The state have been 'teaching' the evils of drugs for over a decade yet this years figurs show addiction levels at an all time high.
Ditto healthy eating - kids have never been so fat.

I share your doubts litchick. If the whole dynamics of society are going in one direction (eg advertising junk food to children, normalising porn) it is a poor solution to have a bolt-on message from the state urging the opposite direction.

MC, there's a lot in what you say.

Litchick, if a child is growing up in a house where there is domestic violence then that child can't rely on their parent(s) to model a "normal" relationship to them. So if the parents can't/don't tell them, who will?

I was just coming on to post that article, I also had mixed feelings on reading it.

Agree, the lessons should be more about violence in the home - to men, women, children, pets etc. Teaching children that it's never acceptable.

One thing I will say however, as someone who grew up with alcoholism in the home, is that problems like that become the "family secret" - it's so drummed in to you to keep your family's business quiet that you almost put it to the back of your mind.
So perhaps a lesson that violence, wherever it stems from towards anyone in the home, is not acceptable, and you can be helped out of it might help children who have grown up not knowing any different. Perhaps give them a voice, encouragement to speak in private etc., once they know their family is not right.

It would have to be pitched extremely sensitively, by professionals extensively trained and working to the same programme. From the article I'm not sure exactly what background the "trainee" teachers would come from.

Absolutely - breaking down the whole "family secret" thing is very important.

Every time I see one of these initiatives, I just wonder how much time schools will have left to actually teach.

"Echoing comments made last month by Sir Terry Leahy, the chief executive of Tesco, Sir Stuart {Rose} said that too many school-leavers could not read, write or do arithmetic."

If schools cannot teach these basic yet vital skills properly, why should we have any confidence that they will be able to "teach" about relationships, domestic violence and so on?

In any case, I think many children are more influenced by what they see on TV and in celbrity gossip magazines than by anything their teachers might have to say.

We complain about a "nanny state" doing silly things like making pupils wear goggles to play conkers, but the more I think about this, the more I think this country needs these lessons, and sometimes the govt gets it right.

When you read about 10 year old children being gunned down in the street like little Rhys Johnson, you can imagine how the perpetrator (who's dad is a complete thug) grew up in a house where his mind (and more importantly his heart) was numbed to violence, and now he's in prison. Perhaps lessons like this (and feedback on them at parents evenings) might help children like him not throw their, and others' lives away?

Whilst I understand your points Scarlet, if we can't give kids a good sense of right and wrong, what's the point?

I went to a good school, yet I didn't do as well as I should have. Time spent looking out of the window daydreaming, and thinking about my own problems, affected my ability to learn. I wish a teacher had taken me aside for a chat at least.

Not that my home was particularly violent, but there's a real opportunity here to talk about not just violence, but alcoholism, drug-taking, and depression in the family to name a few.

I think it is a good idea.

Interestingly, I read that the Victorians who set up general state/charity schools for poor children (which our education system is based on today) made 4 or 5 the age the children went to school as it was judged that the earlier you stuck a working class child in school the less likely it would be that they would fall under the influence of their parents, who, the Victorian middle classes thought, were universally drunks, violent and plain bad parents.

I always remember my dad saying he had a new girl in his office and she came to work every Monday morning with a black eye. This was considered perfectly normal in her family and the village she grew up in...men came home drunk on Saturday night and beat up their wives/girlfriends/daughters. It was only when she started work in Dad's office that she noticed no other woman was coming into work like that and she realised it wasn't normal for everyone.
So if people can be taught this young, it's good.

Sadly, the children like the ones who gunned down Rhys Johnson are likely to be tho ones with the lowest school attendance, and therefore the least likely to actually attend such lessons.

I don't think the intention is a bad one. But it seems a bit like putting a sticking plaster on a broken leg - society's problems go far too deep to be solved by a few lessons in school.

WHy the hell does the word domestic have to come into it at all??

Children should be told that all violence against other children, animals, adults, family, friends, aliens, inside or outside the home is unacceptable and wrong!

So completely agree and actually I dont want my little ones to know that much about the big bad world yet. I want them to be children for a while. I know some children are in these situations but I dont how helping erode the majority of childrens childhoods can be a good thing

Bronze - I like my babies to stay babies too

Perhaps the lessons would be tailored to start very gently and subtly for the little ones, along the lines of, I don't know, "we know hitting each other is naughty isn't it?" etc and build up gradually with info and case stories as they got older..??

will there be any room left for lessons when the goverment has finished indoctrinating children through schools instead of investing in universal parenting classes.

It makes me so very angry

citizenship

all the healthy food stuff

and now this?

this is a short cut for government - if they wanted - truly wanted better education results - they would let the teachers bloody well teach.

the best way out of poverty is education

you want to change the culture of a country, invest in the adults.

you want to change parenting and relationships

speak to the adults.

its a fucking disgrace that schools are manipulated this way to suit government agendas

let children learn - invest in schools, give more resources - don't take away their time
don't give them more to do
don't throw a fraction of the money on this pile of bollocks rather than true investment.

outragous

agree with Custardo

sounds v like 'let's stick it in the curriculum then we can say we've done something'

and then condemn children to live out the samr lives as their parents because we can't educate them properly - remember that social mobility has decreased and the poverty gap widened under this government...

the statistics about how many teenage girls have experienced violence in a relationship are absolutely shocking. i would never have allowed a boy to push me around at the age of 12/13/14 (partly because i was never really 'in love' at that age) but many girls are.

i think that an anti-violence message should be taught through sex and relationship education from very simple stories about respect for the younger children right up to serious statistics and detailed information on what you can do if it occurs for the 16yr olds.

to me, violence within a teenage relationship is just another facet of the same situation that encourages young people to have sex before they are ready or to not insist on condoms. it's all about empowerment and respect.

unfortuantely this is not an area that the government can leave to families because it is precisely those families where mutual respect is not modelled that are the problem.

well i sufferewd domestic violence (we need the word 'domestic'...sorry)and eventually i found it in me to leave. but not before my dc had witnessed some of it.

why are you all focusing on the violence aspect?/

domestic violence covers emotional abuse,financial and more....not just 'violence'

i for one am glad its to be openly discussed amongst our young people. many women/men stay in these relationships simply because they don't dfeel empowered,and don't know where to turn (me). thank god they will be given these tools for the future is all i can say!!