Childcare vouchers definitely going...

[morningpaper]

apparently

adding £2,400 to the childcare bill for top-tax earners

wanker

And yes I'm contributing the down turn in debate on here

This will be the nail in the coffin for many working mothers deciding how to vote in the election.

And have they done any analysis to find out how many people want to put their 2 year olds into nursery if they don't need to due to work commitments? I suspect it is not many.

good, think about how much good will be done by having nursery places available for two-year-olds in deprived and chaotic families.
'course am speaking as a self-employed who gets FUCK ALL childcare vouchers.

when do they predict the next GE is anyway? Will Brown still be in power in 2011?
Does Cameron have the same policy?

PS Arse!

Tokenfemale: There is no way any party will keep childcare vouchers

What really gets me is that iirc the 'expanding nursery educations for low-income 2 yos' thing was already planned long before the announcement was made that the vouchers were being scrapped. What a con!

That is depressing morningpaper.

How exactly are women, en masse (not the rare exceptions) to become valid and equal forces within the workplace when childcare costs are so prohibitive to them returning to work?

I got very confused by someone on R4 today who was saying that if they lost iirc £500 per month in vouchers, then her husband would have to cut down his hours to cover childcare meaning they'd be down £1000 per month. And it struck me that I've just not seen that many calculations on the financial implications that actually make sense. Or am I missing something?

Hi there,
As someone who no longer gets childcare vouchers (but did get them with a previous employer), it has always grated why this wasn't a tax break for EVERYONE, not something you had to apply for and ONLY if your employer was registered... it seems our ingenious Labour government has decided to treat all working parents equally by screwing us all instead of just some of us. Well done, Labour, may you rest in peace.

Out of curiosity dina, what was the actual money value of the vouchers to you?

Just reminded myself of the rules here, and it says that Only the first £55.02 pounds a week of the cost of providing childcare vouchers
are free from Tax and National Insurance contributions - which equates to approx £250 per month which can be put into the scheme. Ordinary rate tax and NI on this would be approx 75 per month, so that would be the standard saving/benefit to the parent.

So what was woman on R4 talking about losing £500 a month? Unless her H was also on a salary sacrifice, and they were both at 40% tax, which would make a saving of poss up to £300?

What am I missing here?

Per Ardua - Both DH and I take the max amount of vouchers, the value of this is just over £150 a month to our family.
Have been able to continue taking these throughout my maternity leave even though there was no childcare to pay, so this has banked up a good amount of vouchers which will help when having to pay the childcare for 2 DCs.
Relieved that they are not phasing out just yet as that saving is a great help to us.

Oh I know they're a good thing, and I used them myself, but I just think that the value and significance is being grossly exaggerated in some places - and I just don't understand the women on R4 losing £500 a month so thinking her H is going to cut down his hours and lose £1000... IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

x-posts. Your sums are correct! 500 isn't right.

For me I get a tax break on £243 a month, which is probably about £80. For my dh it is around £100. He pays higher rate tax. We still have to pay £90 a day for nursery for our youngest two dc.

We don't get any child tax credits, my mum urged me to apply 3 years ago when I was on matenity leave with dd2, so I did and got under £10 per week. At the end of the year my dh got a relatively small bonus and I got a bill for all of the tax credits.

We bought our house in 2007 and so have a much bigger mortgage than a family who bought their house in 1999. But because we work (because we have to to keep our 3 children in a 3 bed semi)we are fat cats abusing the system.

Yes, am a little surprised when people say that they will have to give up their jobs etc.

For us, we would have to live very carefully without that £150 saving (we do anyway..we would probably not be able to do any jobs in the house which is falling to bits!)

But one of us giving up work would make us a lot poorer than that!

Possibly if you are on a low income and your dh is on a higher one, him getting childcare vouchers would make it worth your while working to at least the value of those vouchers...might not be feasible if you earn less than the childcare.

mymother - agreed, no fat cats here either!. we bought our rundown house as first time buyers in the SE at the tail end of 2008 so although prices were dropping then it still cost LOADS more than it would have 10-15 years earlier.

So although we earn what is considered good money, it all goes on mortgage and childcare. Those vouchers are the only benefit we get (apart from ChB) and have definitely made it easier to breathe.

It's not enough of an amount to make it worthwhile to give up work....I'm sure Labour realise that and we'll just have to suck it up!

We would suck it up too, though I love being with my babies and any excuse...

Registered childcare replaced by an au pair?

Likely. Although Citybranch, like you we have bought a house that no self respecting au pair would consider...and it costs how much? Ouch.

No fat cats, no executive homes. Working for less than half of our salaries to maintain a 3 bed semi that needs a lot of work. Cheers Gordon, up yours.

It will be a loss to us - at the moment only dp gets them but I'm going to sign up for them while I can. But I won't vote Tory over this - I suspect the Tories won't reinstate the tax break anyway, but I'd think it's also likely the Tories will cut tax credit and/or Child Benefit.

We're basic rate tax payers but we're at the point where it's very likely we'll lose money from any cuts done on a "these people don't need it" as our household income is just over £50,000. It sounds a lot but our childcare for 2 under 3 costs two thirds of my wages (slightly more than dp earns), and it would be 80% without some help from my dad.

do they want us to work or not????? in one breath they are urging us to go back to work, then in the next taking away schemes that make it possible/easier!

Are there, or will there be, enough nursery places for all these 2 year olds anyway? I can't see there will be around here

I'm furious they are going even though I'm a SAHM at the moment. When I did work, it was the only reason I made the £40 a month I did. DH is a higher rate tax payer and we live on his income. We're very lucky that he earns as much as he does, but it does make us just over the threshold for tax credits. I wasn't making very much and the vouchers were the only thing that let me not lose money at work. The £960 a year we saved using them was crucial for me to afford working at all. Brown's whole thing about targeting the wrong people is crap and it means he's going to force women in my situation out of the workforce. I'm glad it doesn't affect me personally anymore but I'm furious that he thinks it's not helping the right people.

Oh and financially I think this is a poorly thought out idea. Force women out of the workforce and you lose the rest of the tax they pay. My £960 tax break was more than balanced by the tax I paid.

If Brown thinks that educated women making £25K a year with two kids should stay home, I wish he'd say so rather than lying about us not needing help. I'd rather vote Tory where I know where they stand on this issue.

it makes me hopping mad.

i am fortunate now- with dd3 i use vouchers and are grateful for the 75 quid it saves. i am lucky i only have one dc in nursery. my total fees are 650 a month. i earn enough to make it worthwhile and could not contemplate stopping because of the money that could be lost.

however, i had dc1 and dc2 in nursery before the voucher scheme. i worked full time and paid nearly all my salary in nursery fees for two years. it bothered me hugely that all of this came out of my pitiful salary.

to add insult to injury, in the last year that dc2 was in nursery the council started rolling out free places for 3 year olds. it was done on the basis of electoral ward so i was dropping mine off paying full whack and bumping into yummy mummies dropping theirs off so they could go shopping, for free because they lived 2 streets away.

i think it is political suicide personally but in reality they won't be in power to see this through- its what the tories plan that we should be looking at!

Is it all 2 yrs olds that will be getting free nursery places?