Childcare vouchers definitely going...

[morningpaper]

apparently

adding £2,400 to the childcare bill for top-tax earners

yes I'm a bit at the tax point as well. S/E people do indeed pay the same tax rates as everyone else and get no govt support. Anyone claiming otherwise is fiddling the system

millymollymoo - well I'm an accoutant and what you're saying makes no sense at all. Maybe you're just not explaining it very well, but anyway it's off point

Yes, yes. Precisely, Aitch.

As a nanny employer, I still cling to the pipedream that one day a government might be willing to recognise that childcare should be a tax deductible expense - albeit one that probably can only be deducted from one income in the family.

A simple, flat rate scheme of that sort has got to be the most efficient. And while it will benefit fat cats a small amount, proportionately that is a lot less than it will benefit all those 'hard working families' that GB et al are alledgedly so keen on supporting.

Oh I get so annoyed with people saying the self employed pay less tax - we don't. I really resent the implication that because I am self employed I'm a tax cheat

lovefalafel - but I don't think the way to correct this is to make it worse for everyone. I've always thought the actual system is ill-thought through and overly cumbersome (but then it is a government scheme so what else can we expect), but the way to improve these failings is surely not just to dispel the intention, which is good. Don't see why everyone using childcare can't just claim back the tax on the £55 per week at the end of the tax year

I'm not implying that the self employed are tax cheats but they certainly get to claim back a hell of a lot that PAYE's don't.
Company car is a perfect example of where we will save a fortune by DH being self employed.

Well if they are scrapping this, I hope they are also scrapping all the other salary sacrifice schemes - bikes, computers etc - because childcare vouchers are only one of such schemes.

Not that it matters what GB says he will do in 2011 as it's vanishingly unlikely he will be in power then .

Aitch - FWIW I am self-employed too, but I still think schemes like this are a pretty good idea.

millymollymoo - you'll be needing some of that 'fortune' to pay for the holiday pay, sickness pay, pensions benefits, unpaid downtime, etc that you've lost

It equally doesn't matter what David Cameron says in response to the scrappage because it's highly unlikely he's telling the truth either.

"Unpaid downtime" hilarious it wasn't an option for the last ten years and won't be for the next.
DH went to work if he was bleeding from the ears.

Monday - you are correct. The current system is very ill thought out which is the problem with childcare vouchers for me.

As you say, a much fairer way would be to allow all tax payers to claim tax relief on childcare - I don't see why this would be a difficult system to implement. However, it will still annoy me that the highest earners in our society would benefit most.

self-employed can't access the bikes scheme either. don't know about the others. i don't run a company car, either, i'm not a company. sounds like your dh has gone down the company route, i hope he's employing people in return for the extra money he's accessing, otherwise that's plain irritating that he's pocketing the cash. mind you, i had some pals who did that a few years ago, had the accountants etc, but were effectively just self-employed. the tax man caught up with them in the end...

no, it's true, the money would have been nice, we have to pay all our childcare costs and it's pretty hellish, some help would be good. but the way this scheme is administered is patently unfair.

universal benefits and smarter taxes, that's the clever way of dealing with this.

millymolly - sounds like times are good for your partner's s/e status at the minute, that's great. The inherent problem with s/e though is the risk carried. It's a little patronising though to most s/e people, particularly in a recession, for you to be saying how good they have it

FWIW I don't get/use childcare vouchers, I was commenting on them saying that replacing it with 12.5 hours childcare for under 2's is in any way helpful, as it isn;t for people trying to get back to work!

jackbauer - I agree. The 10 hours free childcare for 2 y/o's is a nonsense. They haven't even said who will qualify - but I suspect it will only be accessible either by those who don't work (because they will be able to do the drop-offs and pick-ups) or by those whose parents/inlaws look after the children. And imo, neither of those groups are in most need of financial childcare assistance, by a very long way

Exactly mondaymonday, and as I said earlier I still have to pay for a full time place if I send DD1 to a nursery and have them take her and pick her up form her 'free' place. So it doesn't save me any money at all, and in fact would cost an extra fiver a day for them to do it.

The free nursery place is good as DD1 gets ot make friends and her confidence has soared, but I hate that they sell it as a 'helpful' thing when it isn't

our local council is tackling this, veeeeeeeeeeeeery slowly, by opening up full time places that run through the holidays. won't be in time for my lot, but it is the plan.

we have used the childcare vouchers since i went back to work with ds1. whilst it does not save us hundreds of £ a month it is there and it is a tax break...even tho we are both only normal rate tax payers.
i am annoyed it will be scrapped and that the line seems to be they will be helping 'lower income' families...
whilst we do not qualify as a low income family, having average income and high childcare costs and high commuting costs and high housing costs does make life hard.
and each little bit extra that there is going, such as the childcare vouchers to help.
with dc2 on the way, we will be banking the vouchers whilst on mat leave and i am just keeping fingers crossed that the scheme is not totally phased out before both dc are at school!

I use childcare vouchers but the whole system around them is flawed. the people who benefit most are couples where both are higher rate tax payers with employers signed up to the scheme. Its hardly a "fair" system because it supports the "haves" rather than the "have nots" and therefore its an obvious one for the chop.

I am a higher rate taz payer and save approx £100 a month with the vouchers. DH is self employed so I don't get any benefit there.

DAK are they still planning to phase it out slowly for existing users?

mondaymonday times have been good for everyone for the past ten years but the private sector has never been an easy ride for anybody, to imply that holidays and sickness and over time will suddenly be an issue is laugh out loud funny, employers have been getting 20 hours a week unpaid out of my DH for years, he doesn't have time to take holidays between their projects and then suddenly the entitlement has gone, as for phoning in sick they'd want a note from both your great grandparents.

millymolly - this really is off subject now, but I think most s/e people recognise that the downsides include lack of holiday or sickness pay. Of course there will always be employed people having trouble with getting days off and days off sick, but these are not the majority. However there are no s/e people getting paid for their holidays or being off sick, end of

If you're finding it so great, I really am pleased for you

With respect you are also the master of your own destiny so the bleating is a little tiresom, I'm merely pointing out that not everyone works for the NHS/Council/Local Government and has all these lovely benefits the self employed feel so deprived of.

times haven't been that good in a lot of industries, btw, hence the amount of s/e people... as it happens in my industry freelance wages haven't risen since 1988, in fact a major group just chopped ten per cent off its rate and i know of others who are pretty much only employing students these days.

clearly your dh is an exception (either that or has a rogue accountant, time will tell) but stop tarring us all with his brush.

bleating - wtf?
All you've done is go on about how good you have it now that your partner is s/e. I, and several other posters, corrected you on some of your broad-brush comments about self-employment.

If you really think that anyone in not so good a position as you is bleating then maybe you should join the smug thread. People on this thread are concerned about the cost of their childcare position. If you're doing so well then this won't affect you anyway

we were 'bleating' at your incorrect assertion that we are all paying tax at a lesser rate.