Childcare vouchers definitely going...

[morningpaper]

apparently

adding £2,400 to the childcare bill for top-tax earners

Oh and now my DH is self employed we wouldn't need the vouchers, he's never paid so little tax and claimed so much back

:-o Well done on fiddling your taxes, Milly. Very good example to your children, I'm sure. Most of us pay what we owe, thanks.

I really think that childcare should be made tax-deductable to the second parent/single parent as it is a necessary business expense. Seems like the best way of ensuring that women (particularly low-paid) get back to work.

SE indeed do pay the same tax as everyone else. DH was selfemployed for several years.
All was well until he became ill and couldn't work. We were sensible and were covered by insurance (not cheap!), but in the end they never paid up, and we were left high and dry. No sick pay, no time off with pay for hospital visits etc. But shed loads of hassle when you simply can't cope with it.

polly, i've no desire to be awkward but at the very least you should pay for CAT (£5) and contact us via that system. media requests are £25, this site has to cover its costs somehow.

I'm really mad about this too, my husband gets them through his work though my work isn't registered. It made it so easy for us, having the vouchers appear in an account before he even got paid, we almost (ok, only almost) didn't notice they had come out.

And it made my pre-school bill a lot easier to bear knowing I could write off £243 of it to the vouchers every month.

Not getting the tax saving any more will make a real difference to what we live on.

'I really think that childcare should be made tax-deductable to the second parent/single parent as it is a necessary business expense'

Seems like a lot of us are singing from the same song sheet here, MP. Single issue pressure group, anyone?

that would be great, gizmo.

you'll be fine, penguin, with your free £243, it's just new people who can't sign up.

It isn't a major issue for me at the moment. I do wonder whether labour are deliberately trying to sabotage their own chances of winning the election.

There will be many people who will see this as the final nail in the coffin, labour have screwed middle income earners many times and this could be the final straw for many people.

I would also like to know what the take up will be for the free nursery places in deprived areas. I live in a very affluent area (although we are not) where everyone takes up their free nursery place. My family who still reside in my home town (deprived area)don't take up their free places, it seems that most people wait until the children are of school age before they enter education or send them for a couple of mornings a term before they join school. I'm not saying that it is the same story throughout the country but I would be interested in the take up figures.

Yes this will be a good election to lose - so perhaps it's all a cunning plan

I would be furious, its the only thing I get from the government to help towards childcare, apart from the £18 a week (???) thing that everyone gets. I dont get tax credits as we earn about 2pence above the maximum amount because my DH is a high earner. What they forget though is that yes he is a relatively high earner (and I am not talking big bucks) but he has zero job security and has to work much longer hours than most other people.

I am part time. Fortunately it would still be worth my while (just) going to work after forking out £41 a day (!!!) for my daughters nursery but I would be seriously annoyed if they withdrew these vouchers. These vouchers re one of the few incentives that I can see for mums (and it is mainly mums if you consider the female/male pay inequalities) going back to work. Maybe its because they have listened to the studies that believe pre school children should stay at home? Maybe they think that they will we fighting some other policy, crime prevention, social resp etc by mums bringing up their kids instead of the nurseries. As all I can see from replacing the vouchers with means tested nursery places is an incentive to just not bother going to work, or for people to lie and claim they are on their own etc etc. I appreciate means tested benefits are required in many areas of life but this was/is the one area in which I benefit from something. Selfish cow, tee hee but its how I feel.

Bloody ridiculous government. I have had enough of Labour and may vote Conservative for the first time in my life.

Oh thanks Aitch, didn't realise that. Though it doesn't make it any better for my sisters in law.

Pam you are right about it being an incentive to mums. That is really why it makes MORE sense to have childcare tax-deductible for the second salary/single parent salary, because this move would mainly impact WOMEN'S salaries, whereas generally, the childcare voucher impact is on the MAN'S salary = his take-home is even larger.

Whereas if childcare was tax-deductible against the 2nd/single parent salary, then this would see an increase in take-home earnings for the WOMAN, who are very often on a lower salary. This would be a much better incentive for women to go out to work.

yep that sounds sensible all round. I may have been guilty of rushing in (annoyed) without reading all threads here.

What I would be against is the scrapping of the system with a replacement for means tested nursery places for those deemed to somehow be more "deserving" of it.

makes me sick. Anyone got the link to the petition?

I was offered the free place for a 2 year old at a SureStart group as the playworker suspected I might be eligable (sp?). For those asking, it was available to those on qualifying benefits and those receiving higher rates of tax credits with annual earnings under approx £16K. Basically similar to qualifying for free prescriptions. Provision could be accessed in any setting available and in a range of slot/ hour combinations. Priority was given to those on the benefits or with 3 preschoolers.

I don't look that chaotic and am educated but the playworker sees DH with the DDs too in the week so rightly assumed that we're poor I suppose! I would hope that if the places are limited as the literature suggested that they are targeted better (although I don't have a place yet!). Could be a valuble resource in getting people back to work, freeing up time for training and applying and getting a settling in period out the way?

Beehive, I think its fine to offer the free places to people. But not to to do it by taking the childcare tax relief from all/most working mums.

I am pregnant with DC2 and would have to consider not going back to work if they did this, or at least cutting my hours right down to 16 a week and claiming tax credits. But I want to work more than 16 hours a week because I like my job and owe it to them after them having paid me 2 lots of maternity pay. Business will suffer if they do this as people will have to find new ways to make childcare affordable

is it all or most working mums? what are the figures, does anyone know? certainly it's a minority in my circle.

To OP where do you get the £2400 figure from? The tax saving is £1200 for HRT iirc so surely that is the maximum figure that people will be worse off by.

This is where mumsnet is good as every working mum that I know claims them. Would be interesting to see some stats anyone?

I probably know 20 working mums (all with toddlers) and they all claim them. We are mainly lower tax bracket mums.

don't get me wrong, i do know some lucky blighters who get them, but i know a lot of freelancers and some pals whose companies aren't signed up.

Ignore my post - I see it is based on two working parents claiming vouchers. Doh.

Mollie: Both parents can claim

I'm not sure if this is relevant but if lots of people can't afford to lose childcare vouchers, what happens when interest rates rise? On a £150k mortgage, a rise of 2% would add £3k a year on interest only.

Surely this should be a bigger worry? I don't think it's enough to say that childcare vouchers will influence your vote - there are other things that are going to make more of a difference over the coming year.

I do think that childcare vouchers benefit the 'haves' rather than the 'have-nots' as someone said earlier. So maybe their mortgage costs are higher but so is their income - what about people who genuinely struggle to pay the bills with a low income, don't own a home, don't pay school fees, don't go on holiday, can't afford a car etc. Shouldn't they be getting more help, rather than those who are higher rate taxpayers?

True fleecy, I also think that people who say "I'll have to give up work and up the child tax credit claim" and similar point to another issue, which is that if this goes, tax credits etc. will also have to go in order to ensure that parents don't just say 'fuckit' and give up work.

(I'm sure tax credits will be eroded after the election of course)