all male golf club allowed by supreme court

[mayorquimby]

www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1104/1224258028584.html

last week the irish supreme court ruled that portmarnock golf club was not breaching equality legislation by being a men only private members club.
was wondering what the take on it from a womens forum would be.
i'll lay my cards on the table and say i'm a man and think it's a victory for common sense.

Who brought the case? (can't follow the link bc of IT probs).

From my point of view? Well, the story gives more prominence to the minority dissenting reports, and these seem to indicate that the club is not following the law - no-one can say that playing golf is essential to being a man.

In general, I don't object to single-sex clubs if they do not play an exclusive role beyond their initial purpose. I was glad when the MCC finally admitted women as full members, because they also play a role in the writing of cricket rules.

I don't know what the rules for membership of the Women's Institute are? I could imagine a credible challenge to a WI branch if it was the only social facility in a small village, for example.

What I can never understand is why no women have built or opened a women only members golf club.

What I can't understand is why women would want to trouble themselves helping to make the club successful. I'd just bugger off to a different club TBH.

I play golf. I am not a member of a club. I object to men taking precedence on the tee.

Victory for common sense - eh?

That makes no sense, if a club is single sex then it is single sex, end of - which is the point of the allowances for single sex clubs... a club which is single sex in membership but non-single sex in usage is not a single sex club.

It is pretty elementary stuff, I am fairly sure my 5yo could work it out given a couple of representative photographs of who goes through the front door tbh

"So however much a woman contributes to the successful running of this club she is not allowed to join it or have a say in how it is run and that's ok with you MQ?
"

yes my opinion, that it is a victory for common sense which many have found amusing, is due to the fact that i believe in freedom of association and that any private members club should be allowed to choose on what criteria they allow membership, but they should most definitely be held to the same equality legislation with regards to employment etc.
so in the case of portmarnock golf club i don't see why a club which has traditionally been a men only members club should be forced to allow women to join. no more than i would see a reason to force womens only gyms to allow men in or the group that took this case (i believe they they are called the "national womens council of ireland" but may be wrong on that name) which has an exclusively female mebership should not be forced to open it's membership to men. ditto other private groups which may be based on other criteruia such as religion or nationality.so that was why i said i think the decision is just common sense,why should private members groups be forced to accept anyone,surely they should be allowed set their own criteria?

here are some more articles either reporting or offering opinion on the case

www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/fallout-over-club-ruling-is-par-for-the-course-1937042.html

www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/macho-males-club-together-1937180.html

www.rte.ie/news/2009/1103/portmarnock.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-1226482/DEREK-LAWRENSON-This-column-read-men-women.html

so your argument for equality is that a certain groups rights aren't as equal because they're white and male?

yeah the idea that equal rights should extend to everyone is pathetic i'd agree

iwas paraphrasing

sorry for the incorrect paraphrasing, i thought that when you said equating the rights of white men to those of other groups was tedious and facile you meant it was a pointless exercise where as it would not be for other groups.

but as i say i apologise. so to clarrify you do think that white men should have the same rights extended to them as other groups?

See your argument would have some weight, for me, if this men only club only allowed men in. I.E. they negate their claim to being men only by allowing women to use the facilities in the first place, either the women should be allowed full use on a par with their male counterparts or they should not be allowed in at all. What is happening here is that women are being allowed in but then being treated as second class citizens which is precisely when the equality laws should be applied.

On the subject of clubs being able to choose their own entrance criteria, well, I think the KKK managed that to devastating effect....

well of course the kk managed it devestating effect. but so did the naacp,edmonstown golf club (irelands jewish club), the soceity which took this case,curves gym etc. you can't pick and choose which groups you want to extend a right to and which you don't because you find it distasteful.

"You think that privileged men winning the right to exclude others from participating fully in their golf club strikes a blow for common sense and equality. I don't. I don't think we need to extrapolate any more from that."
no i think the protection of the right of any private group to do this is a blow for common sense. if the white men had been denied this right then it would stand to reason that all other groups would lose this right if challenged in a court of law.you on the other hand would appear to think that white men having this right is a bad thing but that other groups should be able to avail of such a right.
either we have freedom of association or we don't, you can't pick and choose who is allowed to avail of a right based on what we find distasteful.

i'm not trying to extrapolate, i'm asking you a straightforward question.
do you not agree with this because it's white men, or do you not agree with this for any group of people?